Air/fuel ratio meter... again

[gamorg02]

right but RPMs are only going to tell u half the story. u also need to be aware of throttle position, thats why, i gotta imagine, reading it on the fly is the way to go to really get the tuning down.

can u just clarify:

The maximum I could think about is the kit with dual O2 sensors, but for street use I guess it is satisfactorily doable with a single sensor setup, regardless of the brand..

 

[RagingMain]

It is all hard-earned money, I agree, I might calculating it wrong ( feel free to discuss ) but I see it about 5-7% of the cost of the bike ensuring it rides right, or about 30% of the cost of the exhaust system, carb kit and filter to help it running right - not only at idle, but at other operating ranges too. The maximum I could think about is the kit with dual O2 sensors, but for street use I guess it is satisfactorily doable with a single sensor setup, regardless of the brand.
Couldn't the a/f and rpm recordings indicate if we need to drop the needles or go higher on the mains, etc... ( I never used a/f ratio before to tune ) but I assume. ( again, please advise if I assumed wrong, I might just be too optimistic )...

This is exactly what I have been using it for. I have the LM-1 strapped to the bike right now and watch what is going on real time. Lets me know if I am rich or lean and it responds fast enough to give you an accurate measure.

For instance I have adjustable needles.
I was running on 3rd from the blunt end, it was running a little rich on the highway. I have Seans 5th gear overdrive so 80 mph is only 4k rpms. I would go up and down the highway in 4th gear and check all the rpm ranges. Highway runs out real quick around here :damn angry:
Anyways I was getting 30 mpg with it on the third clip and right around 13-13.5:1. Some might argue it is ok.
I then went to the 2nd clip from the blunt end. Mileage went up to 34 cruising at 80-85 and a/f ratio went up to 15-15.5:1 for the highway but riding around town it was higher 15.5-16:1. Again some might argue this is ok. Lean is good as long as it is not surging or popping.
I am now on the 2nd clip with one shim. I like it here and so does the bike. Throttle is a bit crisper and bike doesnt heat up as fast. I am right around 14.5-15:1 riding around town.

As far as the mains it is really hard in So Cal to find a spot that I can pay attention to the rpms and the a/f meter at the same time and not accidentally play tag with some cars. So as far as the mains go I would either need a dyno or a track. Keeping it in 3rd or 4th allow you to get it onto the mains but you still have to pay attention to where you are going.

The nice thing about the LM-1 and some of the wide band gauges is they have record functions vs RPMs that you can download into your computer.

In my opinion they are awesome for tuning but once tuned and nothing changes no reason to keep a permanent one on the bike. It is something different but I find myself watching it too much and that could be a detriment to my health one day. Use it, get it tuned, then take it off. The other reason I like it is when you do a dyno you can compare what the dyno says to what your meter says to get a more accurate representation of what your engine is actually doing.
Also using it at the track with the RPM recorder is another good thing.
If the bike is tuned correctly with one it is not something you need to watch on a continuous basis like temp or oil pressure.

It is neat to see how just cold air in the morning to warmer air at night on the same day has an effect on your a/f ratio.

 

[adamax]

This is exactly what I meant, and on temporarily basis of course.
If we can use EGT and have the guidelines to use this input to tune the bike, so be it. I know there is a relation between the EGT and the fuel mixture but I currently do not know how to use it, but despite the fact that I am an old dog, I still learn everyday a new trick.

Garret, let me re-phrase: regardless of the brand, the most sophisticated setup I could see convenient for my use ( normal daily ride most of the time and few occasional fun rides ) is to tune the bike with a dual WBO sensors ( one at each end cap or wherever ), however I believe that even with one sensor and some patience the bike can be properly tuned.

 

[Rick52]

Sean
i am interested in buying a wideband for tuning on my 09. What kind f price can you get me?

[email protected]
rick rash

 

[one2dmax]

email sent rick,

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

This is exactly what I meant, and on temporarily basis of course.
If we can use EGT and have the guidelines to use this input to tune the bike, so be it. I know there is a relation between the EGT and the fuel mixture but I currently do not know how to use it, but despite the fact that I am an old dog, I still learn everyday a new trick.

Garret, let me re-phrase: regardless of the brand, the most sophisticated setup I could see convenient for my use ( normal daily ride most of the time and few occasional fun rides ) is to tune the bike with a dual WBO sensors ( one at each end cap or wherever ), however I believe that even with one sensor and some patience the bike can be properly tuned.

i'll only run one at a time as it can get pricey i think to run 2 at a time, but i can always switch it up. i'm in the same boat as u i think tho man. got a few ideas.

email sent rick,

Sean

Sean, do u sell any others but dynojets?

 

[Rusty McNeil]

I highly recommend the DynoJet WBC, especially if Sean is selling it for a good price...

It has ALOT of datalogging abilities, programmable outputs for nitrous, timing retard, shift lights etc and the biggie is that you CAN install it permantley and make it look nice...

It's also way less than $599, I think I paid about $450 for mine several years ago, it's probably less that that now due to competition....

it uses the Bosch sensor, and bear in mind that NONE of these wideband sensors lasts forever, I'm on my 3rd one in 1 year on a car and several more years/20,000 miles on a bike. Sensor life is one reason to go for a temporary set-up, but then you wouldn't have that neat analog guage to look at all the time telling you when your carbs are starting to act stupid......not uncommon on the vmax....

 

[one2dmax]

I haven't checked but I am setup with the Holley motor group and might even have setup with other car parts suppliers but haven't checked in some time. Any particular requests?

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

yea, the innovate stuff looks good. Either an LM-1 or a DB-Blue (or Red) full kit.

to be honest, anything in the $200 - $300 range wideband that works well i'd be interested in, especially if you could offer a good price. i'd much rather give u the business, and i bet a few others would be interested as well.

 

[one2dmax]

I know jeff and I discussed this some time back and wonder how much interest there would be in a tool loaner program. Basically, I would send the tool out for a rental fee which would include the cost of the bungs and plugs. You would weld them in place and then tune the bike and send the equipment back with the bungs still on the bike. If you needed to retune later there would be a lower fee at that time since you would not need the bungs again.

I'm thinking somewhere in the $100 range for two weeks use?? If we want to do something like this I would order the temp install dual system. Of course any cable/equipment damage would have to be paid extra.

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

i *might* be interested. couple questions.


1. we are talking about a temp guage here, which could monitor both parts of the Y before a muffler?
2. are these different bungs from a typical O2 for a/f bung?
3. not sure how much the temp tools are, but if i could get an a/f tool for $200-$250 id probably buy that before i'd rent it for $100
4. what price are you thinking if one has the bungs already welded in?

 

[one2dmax]

Sorry, a temporary system and not the permanent mount. Not temp gauge. You would install the bungs after the collector ideally.

Need to check the bung/plug cost and that will make the difference.

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

Sorry, a temporary system and not the permanent mount. Not temp gauge. You would install the bungs after the collector ideally.

Need to check the bung/plug cost and that will make the difference.

Sean

so it'd be a regular a/f meter/gauge? could people get their own bungs/plugs as well, as its the typical size?

 

[one2dmax]

I expect they could. Should be normal bosch sensor and I think the bungs/plugs are the same for everything.

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

interesting. well let me know what u come up with for a price or if u can get a deal on innovate a/f widebands. we'll go from there. Like i said tho if i can get one for $200-$250 i'd probably go that route instead of renting one for $100

 

[adamax]

"...and wonder how much interest there would be in a tool loaner program..."
I cannot loan, I am too far away.

I read good stuff on the innovate including 9 wideband comparison and the innovate scored the best !!!

Sean, can we get a good deal with innovate?

 

[one2dmax]

waiting on my dealer info from them.

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

Sean, i am also patiently awaiting as i may have found one (used) locally....

 

[gamorg02]

Hey Sean, o ranyone else who can answer,

Just to claify, 02 sensor bungs are 18mm x 1.5mm and are different from the OEM bungs which are for an exhaust temp analyzer?

 

[one2dmax]

Innovative is currently at SEMA so it will probably be sometime next week before I hear anything back from them.

Sean