creaking for rear end with new mods

[veebooster]

When I was looking into mine I went through the same process. Examined those rubber inserts and pins. I found mine in good shape but dry. Lubed them up with marine grade grease.....no difference, still made the creaking sound. Like I said earlier it was the reinforced swingarm exerting pressure on the axle/bearing/pumpkin allignment. Guess I was lucky on getting it realligned properly.

Good luck Garrett....frustrating issue!

Dale #2592

 

[gamorg02]

Try to ask kosman if he changed anything along the bearings,spacers and the clutch hub.

That would give Ya a clue.


As for the indepth service bulletin.
Someone says that the axle should get into drive very smothly.
Like Sean, I dont see any problem with this.
The main rue is: evrything will bend due the welding, evrything.

Good welder will know how to minimalize that effect.


I've done the swingarm mod couple of times, something around 6-7.
All were bend a little due the welding. Evry axle in those swingarm started to go in little harder.
Mine swingarm also need some rubber hammer to get out the axle.
Nothing dramatic, just light wack with rubber.
But mine is not creaking...anymore for the time I found it was the bearing.

Garret I will help Ya as much as I can but "You" must decide what to do with this.
Fight or let it go.

i appreciate the help przemek, i hope i didn't come off ungrateful, just trying to learn a bit as well!

i called kosman they said they never had anyone complain of that once they got their wheels back. they did not touch the inner hub though and there was no bearings or cush drive/clutch hub on the wheel when they got it, i took everything off the wheel except the rubber inserts.

I'd say fight, the bulletin is the wheel off, a snap ring and a good visual inspection, then go from there. Go Garret, we all support you unk: ...

haha thanks bro. thats the plan for today!

When I was looking into mine I went through the same process. Examined those rubber inserts and pins. I found mine in good shape but dry. Lubed them up with marine grade grease.....no difference, still made the creaking sound. Like I said earlier it was the reinforced swingarm exerting pressure on the axle/bearing/pumpkin allignment. Guess I was lucky on getting it realligned properly.

Good luck Garrett....frustrating issue!

Dale #2592

i would say mines similar except i stretched it back out so the washer goes in smoothly. maybe if i try the 'washer swap' it'll push things back into allignment? its worth a shot i guess anyways huh...

 

[satariel666]

i appreciate the help przemek, i hope i didn't come off ungrateful, just trying to learn a bit as well!

i called kosman they said they never had anyone complain of that once they got their wheels back. they did not touch the inner hub though and there was no bearings or cush drive/clutch hub on the wheel when they got it, i took everything off the wheel except the rubber inserts.

Its all good.
No problem, ask whatever You want and Ill try to help.

Im just a bit dimplmatic :biglaugh:

 

[gamorg02]

Its all good.
No problem, ask whatever You want and Ill try to help.

Im just a bit dimplmatic :biglaugh:

understood and appreciated.

so I MAY have the problem fixed. the usual tests provided no creaks. i greased the cush drive pins, the cush hub and more grease on the needle bearing. also saw some tire wear marks on the swingarm, figured i should try the washer swap, that seems to may have done it. i think the 190 tire might be a bit too big without the swap.

tightened her all down and the tire seemeed to not want to turn very much so i talked to sean and i set the axle nut at around 35 ft lbs, everything so far so good.

i'll update more tomorrow, gonna go riding!!

i think the issue may have stemed from the tire hitting the swingarm ever so slightly, not allowing the pumpkin to line up and causing stress there or on the bearing..

never noticed it touching and tried multiple times to check but it was only on the one spot i couldn't see well.

thanks everyone for their help thus far and i'll update if its back...

 

[spursmech]

unk: Hey, Garrett, if the wheel did not turn with the axle nut tightened correctly' the spacer between the bearing needs to be adjusted to the correct length. Loosening the nut on the axle is not the correct fix. I had the same problem with a new RC wheel until i fixed it. Good Luck, Spurs

 

[dannymax]

unk: Hey, Garrett, if the wheel did not turn with the axle nut tightened correctly' the spacer between the bearing needs to be adjusted to the correct length. Loosening the nut on the axle is not the correct fix. I had the same problem with a new RC wheel until i fixed it. Good Luck, Spurs

Spurs, I guess the spacer would have to be longer, right? Did you cut another one or shim the existing one....and how much?

 

[gamorg02]

unk: Hey, Garrett, if the wheel did not turn with the axle nut tightened correctly' the spacer between the bearing needs to be adjusted to the correct length. Loosening the nut on the axle is not the correct fix. I had the same problem with a new RC wheel until i fixed it. Good Luck, Spurs

why would doing the washer swap have to change the spacer?

 

[spursmech]

Spurs, I guess the spacer would have to be longer, right? Did you cut another one or shim the existing one....and how much?

unk: I believe it was shortened. When you tighten the axle nut if the spacer is too long is will crush the bearings instead of letting them spin freely. I believe there is info on this in one of the online manuals. Spurs

 

[satariel666]

understood and appreciated.

so I MAY have the problem fixed. the usual tests provided no creaks. i greased the cush drive pins, the cush hub and more grease on the needle bearing. also saw some tire wear marks on the swingarm, figured i should try the washer swap, that seems to may have done it. i think the 190 tire might be a bit too big without the swap.

tightened her all down and the tire seemeed to not want to turn very much so i talked to sean and i set the axle nut at around 35 ft lbs, everything so far so good.

i'll update more tomorrow, gonna go riding!!

i think the issue may have stemed from the tire hitting the swingarm ever so slightly, not allowing the pumpkin to line up and causing stress there or on the bearing..


never noticed it touching and tried multiple times to check but it was only on the one spot i couldn't see well.

thanks everyone for their help thus far and i'll update if its back...

Cool, hope this will solve Your problem.

 

[satariel666]

why would doing the washer swap have to change the spacer?

Hes right.
Think about it like a one lenght.

When You add 2-3mm thick washer in one place You must take that 2-3mm's from a second place.

 

[gamorg02]

Hes right.
Think about it like a one lenght.

When You add 2-3mm thick washer in one place You must take that 2-3mm's from a second place.

right but all it does is move the entire wheel over the 1/8", right? the bearings and everything relative to each other and the brake arm are all still in the same spot..

i take it from b/t the brake arm and swingarm and move it between final drive and cush drive... so theres no adding of material, right?

on a sad note, the creak, every so slightly, might be back. more to report tomorrow..

 

[satariel666]

right but all it does is move the entire wheel over the 1/8", right? the bearings and everything relative to each other and the brake arm are all still in the same spot..

i take it from b/t the brake arm and swingarm and move it between final drive and cush drive... so theres no adding of material, right?

on a sad note, the creak, every so slightly, might be back. more to report tomorrow..

It depends. Evry swingarm is diffrent, just a bit but its still.
For one its ok but for second it is not.

When i bought my v-max it came to me with the stock wheel but without the washer. I never wondered what happend with that washer tho.

 

[dannymax]

why would doing the washer swap have to change the spacer?

Garrett, Think Spurs was talking about the bearing spacer inside the wheel. I didn't see any mention of the washer swap.


"Hey, Garrett, if the wheel did not turn with the axle nut tightened correctly' the spacer between the bearing needs to be adjusted to the correct length. Loosening the nut on the axle is not the correct fix. I had the same problem with a new RC wheel until i fixed it. Good Luck, Spurs"
<H1>

</H1>

 

[spursmech]

unk: Garrett, look on page 6-6 of the Yamaha Repair Manual and you will see how the rear wheel spacer # 5 is wedged between the spacer flange # 4 and the collar # 6 in between the bearings. This spacing is set up from the factory to allow the correct axle nut torque of 85#. If you change bearings, wheels, or any componets in that rear wheel you will have to adjust the spacing to allow the wheel to turn freely. If you move the washer from one side to the other it will not matter, the spacing on the bearings is still too tight and the wheel will not rotate correctly. If your tire is hitting the swingarm, moving the washer may help but the bearings will still be damaged by the spacer. You need the torque setting on the axle nut to be set correctly, it is not just a suggestion from Yamaha, but a real value. You wouldn't set the rods or main bearings at a value where the crank turns freely, you would set them to the correct setting. I suggest you take about .0010 off the spacer at a time until you can spin the rear wheel freely at a torque value of #85. I also see you have an 03 bike that you put an 85 rear wheel on, so I'm not sure what bearings, spacers, and parts you used on this wheel but they need to be adjusted for proper spacing. If on the other hand your spacer is too short and falls down into the wheel hub when the axle is not in place it may need to be lengthened to fit correctly. The spacer should stay in place when the axle is removed meaning you should be able to stick the axle right into the wheel without interference from the spacer. Hope this helped, Spurs

 

[gamorg02]

unk: Garrett, look on page 6-6 of the Yamaha Repair Manual and you will see how the rear wheel spacer # 5 is wedged between the spacer flange # 4 and the collar # 6 in between the bearings. This spacing is set up from the factory to allow the correct axle nut torque of 85#. If you change bearings, wheels, or any componets in that rear wheel you will have to adjust the spacing to allow the wheel to turn freely. If you move the washer from one side to the other it will not matter, the spacing on the bearings is still too tight and the wheel will not rotate correctly. If your tire is hitting the swingarm, moving the washer may help but the bearings will still be damaged by the spacer. You need the torque setting on the axle nut to be set correctly, it is not just a suggestion from Yamaha, but a real value. You wouldn't set the rods or main bearings at a value where the crank turns freely, you would set them to the correct setting. I suggest you take about .0010 off the spacer at a time until you can spin the rear wheel freely at a torque value of #85. I also see you have an 03 bike that you put an 85 rear wheel on, so I'm not sure what bearings, spacers, and parts you used on this wheel but they need to be adjusted for proper spacing. Hope this helped, Spurs

I used the spacer from the '85 wheel before i took the bearings out. the issue here is before the washer swap if i torqued it to spec (110 ft lbs) no problem, now anything over 50 and it gets a bit tighter...

how many tries did it take you to get the spacer right? Just thinking u musta gone thru quite a few bearings driving them out each time?

the more I think about it though, i think i know why it doesn't like to be torqued down. i bet the washer is hitting the inner race for the needle bearing. before the clutch hub would seat and the inner race wouldn't hit the differential, but i bet this extra 1/8" there is hitting that and now there is pressure on both sides of the inner races, and wheel spacer.


were you trimming down the wheel spacer b/t the bearings or the inside race on the cage/needle bearing?

 

[spursmech]

I used the spacer from the '85 wheel before i took the bearings out. the issue here is before the washer swap if i torqued it to spec (110 ft lbs) no problem, now anything over 50 and it gets a bit tighter...

how many tries did it take you to get the spacer right? Just thinking u musta gone thru quite a few bearings driving them out each time?

the more I think about it though, i think i know why it doesn't like to be torqued down. i bet the washer is hitting the inner race for the needle bearing. before the clutch hub would seat and the inner race wouldn't hit the differential, but i bet this extra 1/8" there is hitting that and now there is pressure on both sides of the inner races, and wheel spacer.


were you trimming down the wheel spacer b/t the bearings or the inside race on the cage/needle bearing?

unk: Yes, that is where I had trouble. But as I added in my last post, if your spacer is loose or rattles around in there it is too short and needs to be lengthened. It is either too short or too long. If it falls down inside the wheel or you have trouble installing the axle through the hole it is too short. Spurs

 

[gamorg02]

unk: Yes, that is where I had trouble. But as I added in my last post, if your spacer is loose or rattles around in there it is too short and needs to be lengthened. It is either too short or too long. If it falls down inside the wheel or you have trouble installing the axle through the hole it is too short. Spurs

def not too short, tiny bit of play in there.

still not sure how that spacer would cause an issue, i think my issue might be the inner race as its now hitting the washer where it wasn't before...

 

[dannymax]

Garrett, what's the part # of the washer the inner race is hitting?

http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm.../VMX12V_V-MAX/GroupID/347873/Group/REAR_WHEEL_

 

[gamorg02]

Garrett, what's the part # of the washer the inner race is hitting?

http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm.../VMX12V_V-MAX/GroupID/347873/Group/REAR_WHEEL_

#22, because its between the final drive and cush drive.

 

[dannymax]

Seems like that would indicate the bearing spacer, #3, is a bit too long and it's binding under torque???