EFI Project

[maleko89]

Gary, I noticed the fuel hoses/injectors are on the outside of the manifold. I'm just curious but is it possible to mount them on the inside to clean up the look? Or is there a performance aspect that I'm missing?

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Gary, I noticed the fuel hoses/injectors are on the outside of the manifold. I'm just curious but is it possible to mount them on the inside to clean up the look? Or is there a performance aspect that I'm missing?

What your seeing there is the NOS lines. I will try to get the injectors actually pointed right at the intake port on the heads. So they should be out of site with our setup.

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Mark,

I have planed to include the bosses for NOS to the manifolds. That way if someone decides to add the gas, they can just remove the pipe plugs... add the foggers and other NOS components and their good to go.

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Friday the 13 th update

The UPS man has delivered the throttle bodies! A big ....THANK YOU! Goes out to Mark (birdprey) Mark is totally responsible for making it all happen.

I will post pics and info about the bodies this weekend for reference. I will also start the mods to the TB's this weekend and will have pics hopefully by next weeks end.

Mark is looking into the EFI electronics and he says.... looks like the Haltech E8 will do the job of full motor management with lots of goodies. The Megasquirt has a lot of drawbacks in that dept as it is not capable (unless your a rocket scientist) of doing a sequential firing, but it may be a low cost EFI solution to those who want the EFI with stock ignition. We'll see

​

 

[one2dmax]

I have the parts to ship but delays kept it from happening. SHould ship monday. Sorry for the delay!

 

[TURBOVMAX]

I have the parts to ship but delays kept it from happening. SHould ship monday. Sorry for the delay!

Not a problem my friend. I've got plenty to keep me busy right now.

 

[greytsaver]

Good luck with the efi kit, I'll be eagerly waiting. Can't get myself to pony up the $4250 for Bill's efi. Has anybody considered using the throttle bodies off of a Honda vfr 800? It might be less to modify than an inline four's. I think the key for keeping the price down and making it easy is using the max's stock rubber spigots. Oh, I contacted RBR and they said they had not had a vmax system for 20 years and to leave my bike stock.

 

[Birdoprey]

. Has anybody considered using the throttle bodies off of a Honda vfr 800? It might be less to modify than an inline four's. I think the key for keeping the price down and making it easy is using the max's stock rubber spigots.

Hey Gary, here is someone else that thinks like me! Scary, huh?:rofl_200:
Actually greytsaver, that has come up. The biggest problem at the moment is that we have to get a set in our hands before we can have an idea. I'm already out over $350 on TB's(and i got some smok'n deals). I've tried to send PM's to some that are selling the VFR TB's but only one(of about 10) has even bothered replying and he only answered part of my question and never replied back after that. Another thing to consider is the injector sizing. Though i'm pretty sure they will be large enough for a stk motor, i'm not sure how much more. Lastly, all the Honda TB's have a very odd flange for the airfilter side which would require an adapter to be made to fit a filter. It also makes fabing a box more difficult.
We may revisit the VFR TB's once we get a working EFI system up and running. Right now, we need to get something workable so we can proceed with other aspects of the system, namely the electronics.
BTW, happen to know the ID and OD of the outlet fange(where it goes into the intake manifold) of the VFR TB's?

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Hey Gary, here is someone else that thinks like me! Scary, huh?:rofl_200:
Actually greytsaver, that has come up. The biggest problem at the moment is that we have to get a set in our hands before we can have an idea. I'm already out over $350 on TB's(and i got some smok'n deals). I've tried to send PM's to some that are selling the VFR TB's but only one(of about 10) has even bothered replying and he only answered part of my question and never replied back after that. Another thing to consider is the injector sizing. Though i'm pretty sure they will be large enough for a stk motor, i'm not sure how much more. Lastly, all the Honda TB's have a very odd flange for the airfilter side which would require an adapter to be made to fit a filter. It also makes fabing a box more difficult.
We may revisit the VFR TB's once we get a working EFI system up and running. Right now, we need to get something workable so we can proceed with other aspects of the system, namely the electronics.
BTW, happen to know the ID and OD of the outlet fange(where it goes into the intake manifold) of the VFR TB's?

It's all good! I should have something mocked up pretty solid within the next 2 weeks. And as you said once we get a running system. Setting up different throttle bodies will be interesting. I think based on what we've learned about the electrionics we should choose the first ECU soon. Don't think trying to set up more than one ECU at time will be good. Your opinon?

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Update

No opinion's?

Here's how the project has progressed:

After much thinking and calculating the GSXR 01-03 600 throttle body is the winner. Ran some flow calculations on a program at work and there really isn't any point in using a larger throttle body. For a stock motor that is, and even at 1327 cc's there isn't a problem. The stock VMAX carb's bore is 35mm and the GSXR 600's taper bore is 41mm inlet to 38mm at the motor. That's 3mm larger than the stock carb's. The smallest restriction is the oval port at the head and unless you start doing some serious porting to the heads, there's really no gain in using a larger TB.

To put it all into perspective I ran a single Mikuni HSR 42 on a 1260 draw thru turbo bike and it ran 8.70's and faster all day long. That's of course at 15 pounds of boost. The only work done to the heads was a set of stainless valves and very mild port blending. There may be some advantages to using the 750's or 1000's but I can't see it unless your going to race a normally aspirated big bore 1500. I'd recommend if you are going to race. That you keep the displacement small, put a turbo or some nitrous gas on top of that fuel injection and kick some ***.

The setup Buster has can't be tuned properly with that 44 mm setup and I believe if he runs the 42's it will only help marginally. It's better to have the higher air velocity for better fuel atomization... especially down low for throttle response. As Mark has said "that's where we all normally ride our bikes". Sooo the 600's with the Haltech E8 full motor management will be the first cut. And for those of you, that only want the fuel injection and very low cost. The Megasquirt option may still happen... but it doesn't look promising. Remember you get what you pay for.

So here's the good news... Using the 600's I can keep the stock manifold's as they are and retain the VBOOST or do it without. Simply be removing the valve and replacing it with an aluminum plug. The Haltech E 8 has the ability to run a stepper motor. Programing it to run the VBOOST will be easy because it's simply RPM activated. There's still a lot of work to done on my part like boots,clamps and linkage's etc. but after that initial work is complete. It should look very clean and the cost of the parts will be relatively low because we don't have to make expensive manifolds.

Of course this is only my opinion. Any thought's you'd like to share?

Stay Tuned!

 

[maleko89]

Sweet Gary! How much are the aluminum plugs? Could you just retain the vboost valves and keep 'em closed?

 

[Birdoprey]

Gary,

Very good news! I figured we'd end up with those. Plenty of flow. Kinda like the V-8 guys that wanna run a 850 or larger cfm carb on a 450hp motor. They may gain 2-5 hp at peak but loose 10-15 in the midrange and low end. Look at average hp/tq and the gains are HUGE with a properly sized carb/tb.
How do you plan to orient the TB's? The injector on the head side(prolly the best imo)? The injectors toward the "V"? Out to the left/right? Both facing inside?
What kinda CFM to the stk heads flow?

Mark, i'm sure the valve can be left intact and closed.

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Sweet Gary! How much are the aluminum plugs? Could you just retain the vboost valves and keep 'em closed?

Mark,
Are you looking to remove the manifold on the stock max? I'm not sure of the price... should be cheap. Dyno Jet makes them if my memory is correct (for the Stage 7 setup). I'll be making some up if you need them.

 

[maleko89]

Gary, no. I was just curious about your EFI project. Since you're re-using stock manifolds you could use stock Vboost valves kept in the closed position rather than making the aluminum plugs. Maybe save some money doing it that way?

 

[greytsaver]

Hey Gary (or anybody), I have a couple of questions. How do the gsxr 600 tb's fit onto the stock manifold of the vmax? Is it necessary to control ignition with the Haltech 'puter? For someone keeping their max stock-ish and not adding nos or turbo, controlling ignition may not necessary (or would it?). Oh, I looked at Haltech's website and they have the E8 listed as a "previous product" and not a current one. Their E6X looks to be roughly equivalent and the F10X is what I am talking about when I asked about saving some complexity and money in not controlling ignition. Pardon me if I am wrong in any of this info, just trying to help. I would like to help in some way but I "don't got skillz" when it comes to machining and the like.

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Hey Gary (or anybody), I have a couple of questions. How do the gsxr 600 tb's fit onto the stock manifold of the vmax? Is it necessary to control ignition with the Haltech 'puter? For someone keeping their max stock-ish and not adding nos or turbo, controlling ignition may not necessary (or would it?). Oh, I looked at Haltech's website and they have the E8 listed as a "previous product" and not a current one. Their E6X looks to be roughly equivalent and the F10X is what I am talking about when I asked about saving some complexity and money in not controlling ignition. Pardon me if I am wrong in any of this info, just trying to help. I would like to help in some way but I "don't got skillz" when it comes to machining and the like.

We are currently working at getting the throttle bodies setup and I'll post pics when when I have the setup complete. As far as ECU's are concerned we're still on the fence and doing plenty of home work. I'm not sure if the lesser featured models are capable of doing the odd fire control we definitely need.
You may want to check into that for the group. Mark has been looking into the Megasquirt as a bare bones alternative. Perhaps the models you've mentioned will fit the bill. Haven't had time to look into it. Any help is deeply appreciated.

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Sean Morley Thank You ! Sean donated a set of heads and miscellaneous top end parts to the project and they arrived today. Looks like a busy weekend for me, should have pics of the mounted 600 throttle bodies to show soon.

 

[Nitrousbrother]

Gary,

Long time no hear or see me

Was busy with work and ofcourse my bike.
Tomorow I will redesign my exhaust a little.

Got the engine and extra cooling ready so will testdrive with it to see if this cools extra.
Also got a set of smaller injectors combined with the large 380 cc ones.
Redone the table and will testdrive sunday.

Pics will be placed on my website soon.

Keep in touch !

 

[satariel666]

http://allegro.pl/item575182913_ir_krocce_gaznikowe_yamaha_xvz_1200_1300.html

About 70$ for new set..

 

[joelyons50023]

What will fit up to those intakes?