Flywheel puller failed; bolt stuck........

[gamorg02]

Tried getting my flywheel off today and unfortunately had some setbacks:

1. first puller i tried cracked in half
2. second puller i tried nothing happened. banged on it TONS of times with my mini sledge, nothing.
3. went to autozone and got their puller as i read some have had luck with it. now where the problems began.

hooked it up and put my impact on her. SNAP. one of the bolts snapped about 1/8" above the flywheel face. spent a few mins trying to get vice grips on it but couldn't. got my bits and extractors out. drilled thru the bolt as the extractors couldn't get a bite. then i took the extractor and it was able to grab with a hole thru the bolt. it slowly started coming out then SNAP. the extractor grabbed the flywheel instead of the bolt and snapped off a little under flush than the flywheel face.

tried drilling again but the extractor is hardened steel. bit wouldn't even make a dent. wtf do I do now?!?

do they make massive 'jaw' type flywheel pullers? I am going to call the machine shop and local shop tomorow to see the cost of bringing it in, but anyone else have any other ideas?

Also does anyone know how much a new flywheel is? [Sean?]

this winters mod monkey sucks!

 

[one2dmax]

If you can get it off I am sure we can fix it. Note that the trick as I have always said is in the quality of the bolts used. The bolts that come with the pullers normally suck!

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

If you can get it off I am sure we can fix it. Note that the trick as I have always said is in the quality of the bolts used. The bolts that come with the pullers normally suck!

Sean

figured the ones i had were shot, thought the ones with the brand new autozone kit for cars would be good. i was dead wrong.

sounds like the community needs a loaner puller with good bolts to pass around. damn. i was careful once the second puller didn't work to remove it thinking i didn't want to be stuck here.

any ideas how to get the flywheel off at this point? i don't think it'll pull right with the 2/3 bolts. do big jaw type pullers exist?

also where can i get really high quality metric bolts, what grade would I be looking for?

 

[gamorg02]

does anyone have the diameter/depth of the flywheel offhand? Looking into jaw pullers. has anyone successfully used one on a vmax flywheel? less concerned about damaging flywheel, more concerned about getting it off.

also anyone know anything about 'otc' brand? looking at this or similar:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-To...t=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item1c18229b06

 

[06VMAXIMUS]

Garrett, that sucks!! Easy outs are hardened (as you know) and the only way to get through them would be either an E.D.M.(electrical discharge machine) which would require the flywheel to be off the bike, so thats out of the question, or you could possibly use a carbide burr in a dremel tool to cut it out. The bad thing about carbide is that it is so hard that its brittle, and will shatter easily. How much of the easy out is snapped off in the bolt? That might determine weither or not a carbide bit would work.

 

[[email protected]]

I would try to save the flywheel if you can. To drill through a easy out (hardened steel) your best bet is using a carbide drill bit designed for the task. http://www.drillbitwarehouse.com/home?page=shop.browse&category_id=68 If you end up ruining the threads on one, or all three bolt holes the flywheel should still be useable. You could probably get a local machine shop modify the assembly to take the next size up bolts.

If your not concerned with damaging the flywheel maybe you can drill and tap a new hole(s) and use the same kind of puller? Or even drill and tap it for larger bolts. Or, if you know someone with a portable welder, weld a stud onto the flywheel in that location instead of threading a bolt in there.

If you search around locally you should be able to find a fastenal or grainger or some other industrial supply company that can get you hardened bolts

If your worried about the next set of bolts snapping maybe you could buy some round spacers similar to this:

Slide your bolts thru the spacers. Make sure the spacer is designed for the bolt size you are using, and make sure they are all the same length. You want tight tolerances.

I have used a 3 jaw puller to remove a motorcycle flywheel before. It worked but isn't the right tool. You have to be careful you do not damage the magnets. Sometimes its hard to get the jaws to fit between the sides of the flywheel and the engine case. Never tried it on the max though. The puller I have used is very similar to the OTC one you have posted. You would need a pretty large one for the vmax. Problem is it may be hard to find one that the arms reach wide enough for the feet to actually grabe the back side of the flywheel. Kind of hard to explain but there is not much room for for the "fingers" of those kind of pullers to grip and if the arms of the puller aren't spread far enough they will contact the sides of the flywheel and keep the fingers from getting a full grip on the flywheel.

Just throwing out some ideas. Good Luck!

 

[gamorg02]

Garrett, that sucks!! Easy outs are hardened (as you know) and the only way to get through them would be either an E.D.M.(electrical discharge machine) which would require the flywheel to be off the bike, so thats out of the question, or you could possibly use a carbide burr in a dremel tool to cut it out. The bad thing about carbide is that it is so hard that its brittle, and will shatter easily. How much of the easy out is snapped off in the bolt? That might determine weither or not a carbide bit would work.

haha basically the whole damn tip of it, and its wedged between the hole's wall and the bolt. ugh.

I would try to save the flywheel if you can. To drill through a easy out (hardened steel) your best bet is using a carbide drill bit designed for the task. http://www.drillbitwarehouse.com/home?page=shop.browse&category_id=68 If you end up ruining the threads on one, or all three bolt holes the flywheel should still be useable. You could probably get a local machine shop modify the assembly to take the next size up bolts.

If your not concerned with damaging the flywheel maybe you can drill and tap a new hole(s) and use the same kind of puller? Or even drill and tap it for larger bolts. Or, if you know someone with a portable welder, weld a stud onto the flywheel in that location instead of threading a bolt in there.

If you search around locally you should be able to find a fastenal or grainger or some other industrial supply company that can get you hardened bolts

If your worried about the next set of bolts snapping maybe you could buy some round spacers similar to this:

Slide your bolts thru the spacers. Make sure the spacer is designed for the bolt size you are using, and make sure they are all the same length. You want tight tolerances.

I have used a 3 jaw puller to remove a motorcycle flywheel before. It worked but isn't the right tool. You have to be careful you do not damage the magnets. Sometimes its hard to get the jaws to fit between the sides of the flywheel and the engine case. Never tried it on the max though. The puller I have used is very similar to the OTC one you have posted. You would need a pretty large one for the vmax. Problem is it may be hard to find one that the arms reach wide enough for the feet to actually grabe the back side of the flywheel. Kind of hard to explain but there is not much room for for the "fingers" of those kind of pullers to grip and if the arms of the puller aren't spread far enough they will contact the sides of the flywheel and keep the fingers from getting a full grip on the flywheel.

Just throwing out some ideas. Good Luck!

i'd love to save the flywheel but if it means getting it off or not, its gonna have to be thrashed. I'm sure Sean has spares (whats the current going rate on them sean?)

what good would the spacers do? they wouldn't keep the bolts from stretching would they?

i'm sure i could trailer it back out to springfield and see if rick would give me a hand welding some rods on and doing the whole thing again if it comes to that, would the weld hold though?

isn't the flywheel hardened? wouldn't drilling and tapping require the same type of bit?

i understand on the 'fingers'. i gotta call the guy back and see how much room is 'under' the fingers, as i only have about 1/2 - 5/8" clearance.

gonna call the local motorcycle machine shop today too.

 

[one2dmax]

Depends on the year. Looking at $300 on a used flywheel (they are over $800 new). If you can get it off (even using the outside jaw puller) then the bolt will be a lot easier to get out. I am not sure if you can get a welder in there and attach a metal piece and get it out that way or not?

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

Depends on the year. Looking at $300 on a used flywheel (they are over $800 new). If you can get it off (even using the outside jaw puller) then the bolt will be a lot easier to get out. I am not sure if you can get a welder in there and attach a metal piece and get it out that way or not?

Sean

yea the local machine shop i'm sure could re-tap the hole or make new ones. also calling them about getting it off i should have an answer in a bit.

$300 isn't the end of the world, but i'd like to not try to ruin it.

what are the inside of the flywheels, are they hardened steel? ie would drilling and taping 3 new holes be almost impossible with common drill even if i could get some carbide bits?

 

[one2dmax]

I don't think you'd have a problem at all even hand drilling the flywheel. We could have it lightened and balanced while it's off if you wanted. That will correct any changes you make to it with newly drilled holes if they weren't perfect (odds are you'd be fine anyway).

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

I don't think you'd have a problem at all even hand drilling the flywheel. We could have it lightened and balanced while it's off if you wanted. That will correct any changes you make to it with newly drilled holes if they weren't perfect (odds are you'd be fine anyway).

Sean

hmmm. so i/machine shop could potentially drill out say some holes for a 10x1.5mm tap. probably would just need two, not the whole crow foot, then try some legit bolts on a HD puller.

what would the turnaround time/cost be on the flywheel work?

 

[one2dmax]

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=15716

$150 plus return shipping normally but I'd include the return shipping. I didn't weight the last one that came in but it's pretty significant on the weight reduction. Probably looking at a couple of weeks plus ship time.

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=15716

$150 plus return shipping normally but I'd include the return shipping. I didn't weight the last one that came in but it's pretty significant on the weight reduction. Probably looking at a couple of weeks plus ship time.

Sean

what gets lightened on the flywheel?

 

[one2dmax]

The OD of the flywheel. They remove about 1/4" of thickness but leave the last section that has the sections for the pickup.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=10150095362548679&set=a.392831818678.169018.282702488678

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

The OD of the flywheel. They remove about 1/4" of thickness but leave the last section that has the sections for the pickup.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=10150095362548679&set=a.392831818678.169018.282702488678

Sean

gotcha. what does that gain you, less mass to rotate, more power to the wheel?

 

[one2dmax]

I would expect to not see an increase in Dyno HP. BUT, the engine should rap up and down quicker with the decreased mass. So, throttle response should be quicker during normal riding situations.

The downside will be decreased mass too. The heavier the flywheel the smoother the engine will run and is why the ventures run a massive flywheel.

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

I would expect to not see an increase in Dyno HP. BUT, the engine should rap up and down quicker with the decreased mass. So, throttle response should be quicker during normal riding situations.

The downside will be decreased mass too. The heavier the flywheel the smoother the engine will run and is why the ventures run a massive flywheel.

Sean

gotcha. thanks for the info, gotta get the damn thing off now.

the local machine shop said they don't have anything to pull it.

i'm going to go grab the jaw puller. any suggestions for that? should I use an impact gun (1/2") or not? if i use a breaker bar any suggestions how to keep it from spinning?

 

[one2dmax]

Not sure what to have you do to prevent from spinning other then put in gear and use the brake again.

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

that'd work if i had a clutch. i was waiting on my clutch holder to install the inner boss nut

 

[RaWarrior]

Hmm, the bolts I got with my autozone kit had the markings(and color) of grade 8 bolts.

A trick we did at the marina once for a particularly stubborn flywheel was attatch the jaw style puller, put as much tension on it's bolt as we felt comfortable with (so as to not strip it), then made a little yoke of chain and put in around the center bolt. We have a big-ass slide hammer, put that on the other length of chain and went nuts with it. After each hit you'll probably have to re-tighten the puller's bolt. After a few good slams with the slide it popped off.

We also did the same thing with the jaw puller, except we used the winch of the marina's quad to pull on the jaw. Just as it started dragging the quad on pavement, it broke loose also.