Petraeus Resigns due to Affair

[m-cman]

And had JFK been caught for his predilictions publicly, LBJ would have been President much sooner.

O

Maybe so, but I am still jealous... :biglaugh:

 

[ZackDaniels]

This is a rather funny summary of the state of this story so far.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-november-12-2012/spyfall---david-petraeus-resigns

DailyShow I know but hey it has the facts right in this case and it's funny as hell.

 

[MtnMax/Magniac]

Watching the daily show for facts is like watching a porno for an anatomy lesson. Jon Stewart is even more obnoxious than Rush, in the opposite direction, of course. Spin is spin, no matter which side it comes from.

 

[jester 42]

Anyone who thinks "Landslide" Lyndon Johnson was a paragon of truth, virtue, or faithfulness in his marriage, or in the political areana, is badly misinformed at best.

Do a little research.............

Johnson had a few "sluts" on the side, and he coerced, manipulted, and hustled his way into the halls of greed, power & money. He stuffed as many ballot boxes as Joe Kennedy.
He & his "good ol buddies" could have truthfully been called "The Texas Mafia".

Jester 42

 

[85 MAX-fan]

CIA folk will still testify during the Benghazi hearing, and they have access to the same info etc. I think it really sucks that a guy with such a history and record is made to step down due to a personal affair. I guess this a bigger deal for intelligence officers though due to concerns of them being blackmailed for information etc.

Still, doesn't seem quite right to me he loses his professional job for his personal life.

He wasn't "made to step down". He resigned knowing the consequences for compromising the position he held, once it was paraded by our team of totally professional journalists.

Don't cry too hard for the good General though, I am willing to bet the combined retirement bennefits he is sucking out of the working man's wallet are considerably above those of the common serfs here in the USA.

Now if you are inferring that he was threatened with federal criminal prosecution if he did or did not intimate some of the details associated with that incident where some students took offense to a movie which insulted their religion, well I am not sure what to say there....

 

[ouchez]

Betrayus, the Peacock, phony, self promoter.:biglaugh:

I hope his wife makes his life hell, as he has to so many others.

This is what you get when you have a society and Goverment that worships the military, soldiers, war, firemen and policemen as all "american hero's". They all then begin to believe it and run amoke as a person who is better than all others and greatly entitled to do as they wish, and in the case of firemen and policmen, to have pensions that are in the majority of cases, obscene and unsustainable.

Go to You Tube and search under "Pennsylvania State Police brutality"

O

 

[85 MAX-fan]

Betrayus, the Peacock, phony, self promoter.:biglaugh:

and in the case of firemen and policmen, to have pensions that are in the majority of cases, obscene and unsustainable.

My god, you hate Firemen and policemen???? They do gods work, and deserve every penny you are forced to pay them in retirement.

 

[ZackDaniels]

Watching the daily show for facts is like watching a porno for an anatomy lesson. Jon Stewart is even more obnoxious than Rush, in the opposite direction, of course. Spin is spin, no matter which side it comes from.

The difference is the Daily Show are a bunch of comedians pretending to be pundits for the sake of comedy and occasional information. Where as Rush and Fox are serious pundits that are so off base they're unintentionally comedians.

I didn't link it for it's accuracy as much as I did for a summary that was also pretty funny.

FOX Jokes:
lol how to make linegraph???

lol What relevance does scale have in graphs? NONE!

At least I assume these were made for comedy, because they sure as hell were not for anything resembling honest reporting.

 

[ouchez]

My god, you hate Firemen and policemen???? They do gods work, and deserve every penny you are forced to pay them in retirement.

I do not hate them, Firemen and Policmen have a God syndrome, the damage they cause to their reputation is self-inflicted, just watch YouTube as I suggested. I do not trust, or like Cops, I admit to that. Firemen,,,why are so many of them very over weight.......idleness

As to Pensions, they deserve no more than a Teacher with 35 years would get, and in many cases they get far, far more for 20 to 25 years of "work".

Truth is the requirments to become a cop or firemen are not that high,,,that is why there is such a huge amount of people that want those jobs,,,you could cut the pensions and benefits back 30% and there would still be people lined up by the thousands for the job of police and fire and they would be qualified.

When you have an abundance of workers for a lesser number of job openings what happens,,,wages and benefits go DOWN.

Politicians take care of police and firemen because they want the endorsment of their unions at election time,,that has been so very evident in the last election,,pure politics,,and of course they need the police to protect them from the populace because they Fick them over with great regularity,,,sorta like the palace guard,,or as Sadam had,,the Republican Guards.

O

 

[44boyd]

I do not hate them, Firemen and Policmen have a God syndrome, the damage they cause to their reputation is self-inflicted, just watch YouTube as I suggested. I do not trust, or like Cops, I admit to that. Firemen,,,why are so many of them very over weight.......idleness

As to Pensions, they deserve no more than a Teacher with 35 years would get, and in many cases they get far, far more for 20 to 25 years of "work".

Truth is the requirments to become a cop or firemen are not that high,,,that is why there is such a huge amount of people that want those jobs,,,you could cut the pensions and benefits back 30% and there would still be people lined up by the thousands for the job of police and fire and they would be qualified.

When you have an abundance of workers for a lesser number of job openings what happens,,,wages and benefits go DOWN.

Politicians take care of police and firemen because they want the endorsment of their unions at election time,,that has been so very evident in the last election,,pure politics,,and of course they need the police to protect them from the populace because they Fick them over with great regularity,,,sorta like the palace guard,,or as Sadam had,,the Republican Guards.

O

Didn't know the chance of dying on duty was that high in schools.:ummm: Why are you guessing there are people lined up out the doors for these jobs? There are enlistment bonuses for every branch of the Armed Forces right now, why? There might be people that want the job, but no matter how low the standards are as you put it, few qualify to fill the position.

 

[ouchez]

Didn't know the chance of dying on duty was that high in schools.:ummm: Why are you guessing there are people lined up out the doors for these jobs? There are enlistment bonuses for every branch of the Armed Forces right now, why? There might be people that want the job, but no matter how low the standards are as you put it, few qualify to fill the position.

Boyd,

I an referring specifically to police and firemen, not enlisted men in the armed services, sorry if I did not make that clear.

I support our troops, that is why I want them brought back home, however I do not support child killers like Sgt. Bays or the likes of Lieut. Calley and those that follwed him on that day in Me Lai. The fact is I support our troops far more than our Federal Gov.

If job seekers are so terrified of dying as a cop or firemen why is there such an over abundance of qualified applicants for those jobs???:ummm::confused2:

Teachers have vastly more Credentials, Training, Degrees and RESPONSIBILITY than any police or firemen will ever have. As I said, just check out the cops on YouTube, in all their superior glory.:rofl_200:

O

 

[44boyd]

Boyd,

I an referring specifically to police and firemen, not enlisted men in the armed services, sorry if I did not make that clear.

I support our troops, that is why I want them brought back home, however I do not support child killers like Sgt. Bays or the likes of Lieut. Calley and those that follwed him on that day in Me Lai. The fact is I support our troops far more than our Federal Gov.

If job seekers are so terrified of dying as a cop or firemen why is there such an over abundance of qualified applicants for those jobs???:ummm::confused2:

Teachers have vastly more Credentials, Training, Degrees and RESPONSIBILITY than any police or firemen will ever have. As I said, just check out the cops on YouTube, in all their superior glory.:rofl_200:

O

Who determines responsibility? Doctors have more credentials, training, degrees and responsibility than teachers. People still complain about the cost of health care, so what are you getting at?:ummm:

 

[Fire-medic]

I try to stay-out of the political discussions because there is a lot of ill-will accumulating when these topics are discussed. When I read something like this quote, I feel the need to comment, albeit not at-length.

"Teachers have vastly more Credentials, Training, Degrees and RESPONSIBILITY than any police or firemen will ever have."

I have been both a firefighter/paramedic and a public high school science educator, and am a college professor working in an administrative capacity. I support the efforts of all people to advance themselves by hard work and education, which was what my parents instilled in me. It has taken me a long time to get where I am and my compensation is less than what many other professions make, but I am proud of what I do and the effect my work has on those whose educations I guide, and their own growth in the workplace. One of the intrinsic rewards of being an educator lies in seeing those whom you have had in-class grow their own careers. Some of those will also return to the classroom to share their knowledge, skills, and experience w/others who want to work in that field.

It's easy to toss-off such comments as I quoted, but really no one can consider that to be entirely true, as many blanket statements fail to be truthful in every instance. I think we can all agree that 'ouchez' wanted to make a point that there are some people in the public sector/public safety areas who are 'too-big for their britches.' With that I would agree. Humility and hubris are mutually-exclusive, and I would dare to say, are never characteristics shared by the same individual.

I enjoy a pension from my time as a firefighter/paramedic, and am looking-forward to my second pension as an educator. It took me many years of school to get to this point and four public college/university degrees, and I have earned my benefits from my time served, and the good work I have done. I do not compare myself to a combat infantryman as being a 'hero.' I do take great pride in knowing I have helped many people during my professional careers, and am able to provide for my family because of my choices I made along the way. If someone wants to choose another path and it's a legal one, I hope that your work and successes are able to sustain you in a similar fashion, whatever you choose to do, and whatever the vocation(s).

"Firemen,,,why are so many of them very over weight.......idleness"
Yes, some may be overweight, just like the population as a whole, because of not paying-attention to their health. We make choices, and some make the same choices that members of the population in general have made. Such neglect can be dangerous to a person who has to perform strenuous physical exertion over the length of their careers, and is one of the reasons people in the fire service have shorter careers, as it becomes difficult to perform at such a level as you approach your 50's/60's.

People are very passionate about their political beliefs. I don't expect to sway anyone by my post here, but I wanted to make my point since others have chosen to post. Recall Patrick Henry's famous quote.

 

[ZackDaniels]

It's easy to toss-off such comments as I quoted, but really no one can consider that to be entirely true, as many blanket statements fail to be truthful in every instance.

This. You can't go shooting down a whole line of professions like that man. They're not all bad. Most go into the profession with the idea to help people out, and some end up getting jaded or getting on some weird power trip but that doesn't mean they're all out there. What about volunteer fire and police forces?

I won't argue that brutality exists, some pensions are way overblown, and some have superiority issues, but I've known too many cops and firemen that were great people both on and off the job to crap on the whole profession.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

My god, you hate Firemen and policemen???? They do gods work, and deserve every penny you are forced to pay them in retirement.

I think there has been a somewhat valid case made for an argument against "public professions" I.E. any one who draws their salary from the tax base, having more generous pensions than those that pay their salary ( the general public)

I think another very valid argument in favor of the more generous pensions they receive is that the actual salaries or wages they receive are much less than if they took their skills to the private sector.

I'm somewhere in the middle on that, but will never begrudge a fireman or policeman that tops out at $50k after a long career having a better pension than me.

On the other side I thinks it's wrong for the uncooperative ***** down at city hall that hate their job and do their best to make life miserable for everyone that walks thru the door to receive a massive pension on top of their pay. If you ever had to pull a permit in Houston you'd get what I'm saying.

 

[srk468]

Well the next time you need those fat firefighters to come risk their lives to save your possessions and possibly you or your loved ones lives I'm sure they won't hold it against you... These guys don't make nowhere near enough money for the work and service they do and I for one am proud of our local boys... The police on the other hand not so much, don't get me wrong I know there are good cops out there but when they come to your home and rip you out of your garage and cuff & stuff you like a criminal after cooperating with them you lose respect really fast... Make no mistake, there is NOTHING you can do about it and I've never felt so violated in my life... Because of this I will never cooperate again and will invoke my rights every chance I get, cops rarely save you anyways and aren't required to do so... They just show up later to sweep up the shell casings and try to figure out who actually did it.. All of this is purely opinion on my part and holds no more validity than anyone else's opinion though...

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

 

[ouchez]

Who determines responsibility? Doctors have more credentials, training, degrees and responsibility than teachers. People still complain about the cost of health care, so what are you getting at?:ummm:

I am not forced to pay doctors out of my taxes. Of course doctors have great responsibilty and schooling.

O

 

[ouchez]

I try to stay-out of the political discussions because there is a lot of ill-will accumulating when these topics are discussed. When I read something like this quote, I feel the need to comment, albeit not at-length.

"Teachers have vastly more Credentials, Training, Degrees and RESPONSIBILITY than any police or firemen will ever have."

I have been both a firefighter/paramedic and a public high school science educator, and am a college professor working in an administrative capacity. I support the efforts of all people to advance themselves by hard work and education, which was what my parents instilled in me. It has taken me a long time to get where I am and my compensation is less than what many other professions make, but I am proud of what I do and the effect my work has on those whose educations I guide, and their own growth in the workplace. One of the intrinsic rewards of being an educator lies in seeing those whom you have had in-class grow their own careers. Some of those will also return to the classroom to share their knowledge, skills, and experience w/others who want to work in that field.

It's easy to toss-off such comments as I quoted, but really no one can consider that to be entirely true, as many blanket statements fail to be truthful in every instance. I think we can all agree that 'ouchez' wanted to make a point that there are some people in the public sector/public safety areas who are 'too-big for their britches.' With that I would agree. Humility and hubris are mutually-exclusive, and I would dare to say, are never characteristics shared by the same individual.

I enjoy a pension from my time as a firefighter/paramedic, and am looking-forward to my second pension as an educator. It took me many years of school to get to this point and four public college/university degrees, and I have earned my benefits from my time served, and the good work I have done. I do not compare myself to a combat infantryman as being a 'hero.' I do take great pride in knowing I have helped many people during my professional careers, and am able to provide for my family because of my choices I made along the way. If someone wants to choose another path and it's a legal one, I hope that your work and successes are able to sustain you in a similar fashion, whatever you choose to do, and whatever the vocation(s).

"Firemen,,,why are so many of them very over weight.......idleness"
Yes, some may be overweight, just like the population as a whole, because of not paying-attention to their health. We make choices, and some make the same choices that members of the population in general have made. Such neglect can be dangerous to a person who has to perform strenuous physical exertion over the length of their careers, and is one of the reasons people in the fire service have shorter careers, as it becomes difficult to perform at such a level as you approach your 50's/60's.

People are very passionate about their political beliefs. I don't expect to sway anyone by my post here, but I wanted to make my point since others have chosen to post. Recall Patrick Henry's famous quote.

Medic,

I was hoping you would reply, being a firemen. I find it interesting that you retired from the Fire dept, received a pension, went back to work for the Gov. and will receive another. Honestly, this is part of the problem.

I will not delve into how many years you were a fire-medic and what your pension is or whether your college degrees were paid for wholly or partially from tax payer money while you were a fire medic.

I will say that here in Michigan the Emergency Medical Technicians working for the large ambulance service in central Michigan, the only one allowed in several counties, MMR, pays their Medics in the range of $9 to $12 an hour, and there is no pension,,,probably far, far less than you made for doing the same type of work.

I do not know if you are aware of the burden on local communities here in Michigan shouldering the enormous cost of police and fire pensions and benefits. That burden is literally crushing the finances of many communities.

O

 

[Fire-medic]

"Ouchez," I went to high school and started college in MI and continued in college in FL, which is where I got my degrees. I worked as a union member of the AFL-CIO in MI, and was the benefit of union efforts to save my job at one point. Seeing the 'writing on the wall,' I chose to move to FL while waiting to return to school at the University of Michigan, to-which I had transferred. Instead, I decided to stay in Florida, forfeited my MI academic scholarship, and worked construction until I took my parents' advice and looked for a public-sector job. I got hired into a fire dept. just at the time that EMS was becoming the 'big thing' here in FL, and the model in FL pretty-much as a whole, is that cross-trained firefighters also are EMT's and paramedics. This is not the model in the N.E. or the Midwest USA, where rescue personnel are often part of a third-party provider which contracts w/the local gov't. under a RFP/contractural process. Some areas have separate fire and EMS, but they are housed together, but are not cross-trained. Other areas have both volunteer fire and ambulance, and that is often the model in rural areas. Still others may emulate the Florida cross-trained model.

If you choose to go for the 'big bucks,' you generally are not looking into public sector employment. Doing the same thing in the private sector is usually much more remunerative (yes, you make more $). But, the trade-off is consistency in employment. Even then, public sector employees get laid-off or terminated. It is not true that "you have a job for life." I was just talking to one of the adjunct instructors who works for me teaching EMS, and to-impress the importance of punctuality on a tardy student, I asked my employee, "what happens in your fire/rescue dep't. when a rookie hire arrives late for his job?"

He told me, (a remark directed to the late student) "we always hire a couple people extra (here in the fire service the hiring is a minimum of 3 people being hired to add one person per shift, there are three shifts) so that when we fire someone, and we always do, there is another replacement already being trained."

I find it interesting that you retired from the Fire dept, received a pension, went back to work for the Gov. and will receive another. Honestly, this is part of the problem.

I am not sure why this is 'part of the problem.' I have two different skill sets, and developed them sometimes with tuition paid-for by my unionized benefits under a collective bargaining agreement, but just as-much was also paid out-of-pocket, by me. My upper-division coursework was entirely paid-for by me, as-was my graduate school. I invested in my education instead of a new bass boat, a 4 X 4, or a vacation cabin.

Why should I not use my benefit, and why is that 'bad' or 'the problem' when I do? I worked for two different employers, under two different collective bargaining agreements and will receive two different pensions. You could have done the same thing, but perhaps you chose not-to. I don't see two public-employee jobs as being 'part of the problem.' I chose to move to another state to seek more opportunity in a better job climate when I saw the economic picture in my home state was not healthy. It cost me my college scholarship, but when I was employed in fire rescue after working construction for a couple of years, my employer required me to attend school to obtain a technical diploma and if I didn't I would have been terminated! I just don't see where it is a problem to continue my education to further my career or why working for a municipality and then the State of Florida is "part of the problem." Whose problem?

Have you ever looked-at a municipal or county budget? Federal funds are used for big-ticket items like roads, utilities, and bricks & mortar projects ('pass-through' awards such-as CDBG's Community Dev't. Block Grants), while local taxes and state taxes pay for social services, schools, and essential services. It is not uncommon that personnel overhead comprises 70-80% of the budget, or more.

If you work one job and it ends, or you are fired, or your job is transferred overseas where manufacturing is cheaper, can't you go get another job? When your waste line clogs because someone flushed a toy down the toilet, or you need a new septic tank/drainfield, can you get an overseas person to excavate your yard and to install a septic tank and lay the drainfield? Ask Evan about that problem, and the solution.

Here in south Florida, during the winter, much of the greens and vegetables in the East Coast supermarkets come from the FL farms around Homestead, which is rich muck farmland, once part of the Everglades and adjoining area, now used for agriculture (this also is where the NASCAR series crowned its newest champion, despite bigoted Bruton Smith's envy over his tracks not being awarded the end-of-season race). They have to bring in migrant workers because they cannot get American workers to perform the harvesting, because it is too-hard.

As-for not paying the MD's ( I am not forced to pay doctors out of my taxes. ), if you look at your annual tax bill you will likely find a section where you pay taxes for the local hospital tax district. This includes the paying of doctors, nurses, and the environmental employees, too (the people who clean the facility). Because these are typically operated as businesses, with fees for services rendered, they are usually operated separately and accounted-for separately under the governmental budget, usually to be found under the operational category of enterprise funds. An example of this is the Eaton Co. MI (as you know, this is 'mid-Michigan') 2011 operating budget http://www.michigan.gov/documents/treasury/230000EatonCo20120224_377949_7.pdf which on page 7 will show you the operational costs of both the hospital district and the public safety budgets which combine to become 62% of the annual county budget.

It costs money to operate trauma centers so when you have a single-vehicle crash, and the police dep't. comes to investigate why you lost control of your vehicle, and the fire dep't. and/or ambulance come to remove you to a Level I trauma facility, because you met the criteria for a trauma alert, you should be glad that these people are there, that there is a receiving facility w/state-of-the-art medical equipment and a trauma team waiting to save your life, and that the infrastructure of government is there to care for you.

I didn't need anyone to call me a 'hero' to encourage me to do my job, then or now.

If at the end of a career I am rewarded with a pension which amounts to less-than an entry level firefighter/paramedic makes at the same job, I am grateful for my benefit, and if I need more money to provide for my family I will go back to work at something less-strenuous and risky, and I won't worry about being refused employment because I already served in another capacity and receive a benefit. Do we tell our soldiers, "you can't work another job after you retire from the military?" Nor should we, ever.

I do not expect to persuade you to my way of thinking, but generalizations and blanket statements will fail under the weight of referenced facts, upon closer scrutiny.

 

[ouchez]

Fire Medic,

I am sure you have done much good in your public service career and I thank you for that. That being said, what you have written just confirms my thoughts regarding your original post.

Your statement about making less money in the public sector than you would in the private sector, for the same type of work, I believe has been shown, over many studies to be a false hood.

The bottom line is still, you have prospered greatly at the expense of the taxpayer, with much greater rate of pay and retirement/benefits, than anyone in the private sector doing similar work could ever expect.

I will say to you what I said to two firemen in Saginaw Michigan, after 4 Saginaw Firemen had just retired with between 20 to 25 years, at pensions between $77,000 to $104,000 and full health care, "that is some racket you guy's got going there", only to have them flip out yelling that they were "American Heroes" and that many died on 911 and that I should be fired from my job for saying such a thing, then writting a letter to my employer demanding that I be fired, stating the same in writting,,the joke was on them, because I owned the company! :rofl_200: BTW, the entire incident concerning the pensions and the driving around in fire trucks to each retirees house and blowing the horns and sirens, made the headlines of the Saginaw News, maybe you can google it, and many taxpayers were very disgusted.

How is Saginaw today,,,after decades of police and fire pension and benefits cost the city can no longer afford the police department, it is officially unsustainable and is begging the county to take over the departments, even after a tax increase voted in by the people, which was to be for more police and fire, but was really to try and keep up with retirment cost. This problem is being duplicated in many cities in Michigan.

Now, in Michigan, a teacher with 34 years, Masters Degrees, retires at $34 to $36000 a year,( after also paying into the system) and pays 20% of a lessened health care program, new teachers get no defined pension, and no health care upon retirement.

It is time to treat police and fire retirement and benefits programs in a similar pension and benefit program as teachers, as an example, but they also need to put in the same amount of time, no 20-25 year retirement program.

O