Starting issue after putting on its side

[eggohead]

Just a thought, because it's happened to me. But when you laid it over, down. Was it on the left or right side? It it was to the right, I would be looking at the engine stop switch. I pulled mine apart once and had the switch stick. Try toggling it back and forth a couple of times....

 

[wildweasel_pt]

Is that APX12220 battery have the standard poles? I only saw them with the blade terminal with the crossdrilled hole.

 

[DMAN999]

Is that APX12220 battery have the standard poles? I only saw them with the blade terminal with the crossdrilled hole.

My APX12220 has the same blade style terminal connectors as my UB12180 had and as the UB12220 has.
I just bent my cable ends and hooked it up without any issues.
My UB12180 was in my Vmax for 9 years.

Dragmaxster said they make them with different connector styles but I've personally never seen them on this battery.
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showpost.php?p=411502&postcount=39
The battery in his pictures looks like a MotoBatt to me though, but he said if you ask they can send you an APX12220 with that same style connector.

 

[Dragmaxster]

Is that APX12220 battery have the standard poles? I only saw them with the blade terminal with the crossdrilled hole.

If you look at #39 on this thread you will see the conversion they will send with it- you have to tell them it is for a yamaha vmax motorcycle.

 

[vladthedog]

so, got the new battery; no luck (and even after telling them it was for the yamaha motorcycle, i didn't get the conversion kit....)

Testing the wiring, I pull the same volts (12.5) at the battery, up to the ignition switch. If i test both sides of the connected red wire i'm getting the 12.5 with the key off. if i test the brown wire when the key is on (and the connecters are together) it drops to 11.5 (and the red wires are at about 12 with the key on).. however, if I run a jumper between the red connections and test the brown wire, i'm at 12.5 in all said places. What does that mean?

 

[Miles Long]

so, got the new battery; no luck (and even after telling them it was for the yamaha motorcycle, i didn't get the conversion kit....)

Testing the wiring, I pull the same volts (12.5) at the battery, up to the ignition switch. If i test both sides of the connected red wire i'm getting the 12.5 with the key off. if i test the brown wire when the key is on (and the connecters are together) it drops to 11.5 (and the red wires are at about 12 with the key on).. however, if I run a jumper between the red connections and test the brown wire, i'm at 12.5 in all said places. What does that mean?

And this testing was with the new fully-charged battery installed?
Where did you put the probe when testing the brown wire, when the connector was together? Did you back-probe the connector, or bare some insulation?
It sure sounds like that Ignition switch connector is corroded, if you are loosing a full volt.
Keep in mind that this brown wire goes directly to the fuse box, it must carry full battery voltage, with minimal loss(maybe .1 of a volt or so) due to resistance of the connector and/or the ignition switch.
To confirm that the connector is bad, pull all the fuses in the fuse box. Test all the connections with the ignition switch connector connected, then with it disconnected, with jumper wires making the connections.
If this restores full battery voltage to the fuse box connections, eliminate the ignition switch connector completely, or replace it with 3 individual butt connectors, soldered and covered with heat-shrink tubing.
Cheers!

 

[vladthedog]

So, i charged the new battery over night. at battery with key off its right at 13v. when i turn the key on, at battery its about 12.95. IF I PULL THE 15a HEAD fuse, then at the fuse box i have 12.8v. When I put the 15a fuse in, it drops to about 11.7v. Even on a fully charged battery, the circuit that engages the fuel pump doesn't seem to be getting any voltage. I've rechecked all my fuses again, and not seeing anything.

to answer a few of your questions, it was the new battery yesterday, but i hadn't charged it at all. I charged it overnight so today it's at full charge. when i tested the brown wire with it connected, i think i "back-probed" it (i.e. stuck one of the multimeter leads into the back of the connector where the wire goes into the plastic part.

EDIT:
So lets start over. i re-tested all my fuses, and at some point in time after initially checking them, the starter fuse blew. I swapped it out, and now its turning over. However, fuel pump doesn't seem to be getting any power. i checked to make sure it works running 12v directly to it, and it did. I can hear the relay next to the battery clicking on and off. I tested the voltage between at the fuel pump relay (i believe? its the one under the left side scoop, correct?) voltage, and it seems to be working.

 

[Miles Long]

So, i charged the new battery over night. at battery with key off its right at 13v. when i turn the key on, at battery its about 12.95. IF I PULL THE 15a HEAD fuse, then at the fuse box i have 12.8v. When I put the 15a fuse in, it drops to about 11.7v. Even on a fully charged battery, the circuit that engages the fuel pump doesn't seem to be getting any voltage. I've rechecked all my fuses again, and not seeing anything.

to answer a few of your questions, it was the new battery yesterday, but i hadn't charged it at all. I charged it overnight so today it's at full charge. when i tested the brown wire with it connected, i think i "back-probed" it (i.e. stuck one of the multimeter leads into the back of the connector where the wire goes into the plastic part.

Seems like you are making progress, Vlad. You are eliminating potential weak points one by one.
If you are reading 12.8 at the fuse box, obviously the ignition switch connector and the ignition switch itself are not generating any excessive resistance. Battery voltage is reaching the fuse box. It is understandable that the headlight reading would drop when the fuse is installed - the low beam draws 55 watts of power.
However, the "circuit that engages the fuel pump" is part of the Ignition fuse circuit. The upsteam side of the fuse connector should show battery voltage, any time the ignition switch is "On".
Sometimes fuses fail, even thought they may appear to be intact. You can check them with your meter set on continuity, or just try another fuse, until you get battery voltage on the downstream side as well. From the downstream side, current goes to the engine stop switch. When activated the switch powers up the fuel system as well as other components.
Cheers!

 

[vladthedog]

Seems like you are making progress, Vlad. You are eliminating potential weak points one by one.
If you are reading 12.8 at the fuse box, obviously the ignition switch connector and the ignition switch itself are not generating any excessive resistance. Battery voltage is reaching the fuse box. It is understandable that the headlight reading would drop when the fuse is installed - the low beam draws 55 watts of power.
However, the "circuit that engages the fuel pump" is part of the Ignition fuse circuit. The upsteam side of the fuse connector should show battery voltage, any time the ignition switch is "On".
Sometimes fuses fail, even thought they may appear to be intact. You can check them with your meter set on continuity, or just try another fuse, until you get battery voltage on the downstream side as well. From the downstream side, current goes to the engine stop switch. When activated the switch powers up the fuel system as well as other components.
Cheers!

I edited my previous post i think right when you were posting this. this is what i added which i believe changes a lot:

So lets start over. i re-tested all my fuses, and at some point in time after initially checking them, the starter fuse blew. I swapped it out, and now its turning over. However, fuel pump doesn't seem to be getting any power. i checked to make sure it works running 12v directly to it, and it did. I can hear the relay next to the battery clicking on and off. I tested the voltage between at the fuel pump relay (i believe? its the one under the left side scoop, correct?) voltage, and it seems to be working.

 

[vladthedog]

I'm sorry for all the misinformation i seem to be providing. But I just re-checked power at the fuel pump, and it does seem to be working (i don't think i was holding the start button long enough. it seems to need a second or so before full voltage arrives at the fuel pump. it's still not clicking though when i try to start it (and i drained all fuel from the carbs first). i'm re-checking my lines (including fuel filter, etc) right now. just a heads up where i'm at.

 

[vladthedog]

When you run 12v directly to the fuel pump, should it keep clicking, or just click once (then remove/add power again causing it to click again)? If once per power connection, then its working. I can get fuel to pump through it just fine by continually applying power.

I checked voltage at the relay that is under the left scoop. connecting multimeter to + blue/black and - black, when i try to start it, its only getting approx 6v. that doesn't seem right. would it be the relay itself, or something else thats causing the issue?

 

[Dragmaxster]

When you run 12v directly to the fuel pump, should it keep clicking, or just click once (then remove/add power again causing it to click again)? If once per power connection, then its working. I can get fuel to pump through it just fine by continually applying power.

I checked voltage at the relay that is under the left scoop. connecting multimeter to + blue/black and - black, when i try to start it, its only getting approx 6v. that doesn't seem right. would it be the relay itself, or something else thats causing the issue?

I believe the pump stays running if directly applied - it runs until the bowls are full when hooked up then turns off until needed.
6v does sound weak.

 

[Miles Long]

When you run 12v directly to the fuel pump, should it keep clicking, or just click once (then remove/add power again causing it to click again)? If once per power connection, then its working. I can get fuel to pump through it just fine by continually applying power.

I checked voltage at the relay that is under the left scoop. connecting multimeter to + blue/black and - black, when i try to start it, its only getting approx 6v. that doesn't seem right. would it be the relay itself, or something else thats causing the issue?

It's my understanding that the pump is pressure-regulated. It stops clicking when the bowls are full, resumes running as fuel is being used.
Output voltage at the relay should be battery voltage. If only 6v, check the various points leading to the relay - ignition switch fuse output, engine stop switch input/output, relay input. Yes, could be the relay itself. Bottom line - the pump should be fed battery voltage.
HOWEVER - time to simplify things a tad, Vlad.
I went wayyy back to your original post, you seemed to think it was the fuel pump that was causing your problem.
So, with 12 volts directly applied to the pump, does the bike start and run O.K.? If not, have you checked the fuel filter,and/or the internals of the pump? Have you done a test of the operating capacity of the pump?(pumping fuel into a glass jar).
If the pump works O.K. with direct power, try the same test running off the blue/black wire. If it fails, it's almost certainly because of the low voltage.
Cheers!

 

[vladthedog]

It's my understanding that the pump is pressure-regulated. It stops clicking when the bowls are full, resumes running as fuel is being used.
Output voltage at the relay should be battery voltage. If only 6v, check the various points leading to the relay - ignition switch fuse output, engine stop switch input/output, relay input. Yes, could be the relay itself. Bottom line - the pump should be fed battery voltage.
HOWEVER - time to simplify things a tad, Vlad.
I went wayyy back to your original post, you seemed to think it was the fuel pump that was causing your problem.
So, with 12 volts directly applied to the pump, does the bike start and run O.K.? If not, have you checked the fuel filter,and/or the internals of the pump? Have you done a test of the operating capacity of the pump?(pumping fuel into a glass jar).
If the pump works O.K. with direct power, try the same test running off the blue/black wire. If it fails, it's almost certainly because of the low voltage.
Cheers!

it pumps fuel if i keep putting voltage alternating onto the fuel pump. (meaning putting a lead on/off onto the pump. it's sounding like it should just keep running with direct current until too much pressure (i disconnected the output and ran that to a jar, so should never have too much pressure). as stated i have to keep connecting/disconnecting the fuel pump to get it to pump, but gas will keep coming through. I know there is a thread somewhere about taking apart the fuel pump. I keep searching but cannot find. does anyone know where that is?

 

[Miles Long]

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=8775

I have never done this, but appears quite straightforward.
Good luck!

 

[wayne z]

I had this problem and fixed it. It came out again about 100 miles later. If it came out once it's probably gonna do it again.
I bought on of these and installed the end plate and stud mount off the old one with no problems. Works fine.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-V-Max-VMax-1200-Direct-Fit-Fuel-Pump-1985-2007-4SV-13907-02-00-NEW-/161716896948?fits=Model%3AVmax+1200&hash=item25a71404b4&vxp=mtr

 

[vladthedog]

I had this problem and fixed it. It came out again about 100 miles later. If it came out once it's probably gonna do it again.
I bought on of these and installed the end plate and stud mount off the old one with no problems. Works fine.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-V-Max-VMax-1200-Direct-Fit-Fuel-Pump-1985-2007-4SV-13907-02-00-NEW-/161716896948?fits=Model%3AVmax+1200&hash=item25a71404b4&vxp=mtr

Glad to know someone else was successful with one of these. I actually ordered that exact one last night, while crossing my fingers it would work! They had a very high rating, so figured it was worth 40 bux on a "hopefully" vs around 200 for the OEM.

Not 100% sure it will solve my problem, but it definitely seems like the fuel pump isn't working correctly. I went out again yesterday evening to test the existing fuel pump; it would only click once when applying 12v, and because it was getting dark, i noticed it was also sparking every time i applied voltage. I also saw a small bit of smoke. Definitely not right. I am just hoping thats the main issue (vs being caused by something else). it will be in later this week, so fingers crossed. I'm wondering if by laying it on its side, gas ended up leaking through and getting into the electronics?

 

[vladthedog]

oh my... so, got the new fuel pump. it seems to be working correctly. but now when i try to start it, it keeps blowing the ignition fuse.

I was doing some reading on how to test the stator, charge, etc, and happened to see it mentioned that you had to use an actual gasket on the stator cover. Of course I did not (used rtv). Would that be causing all my problems? Remember, it did originally start until things started going wrong. I already ordered a gasket, but i'm kind of stuck. I have a trailer I can use to take it some place, but won't have it after saturday; if my gasket doesn't come in until next week I'm not sure if I should just take it in, or if that sounds like my problem.

And another weird thing. If I test the fuel pump to a separate 12v source it works fine. If I use the battery wired into the bike it clicks once just like the old fuel pump. Wth?

 

[Miles Long]

oh my... so, got the new fuel pump. it seems to be working correctly. but now when i try to start it, it keeps blowing the ignition fuse.

I was doing some reading on how to test the stator, charge, etc, and happened to see it mentioned that you had to use an actual gasket on the stator cover. Of course I did not (used rtv). Would that be causing all my problems? Remember, it did originally start until things started going wrong. I already ordered a gasket, but i'm kind of stuck. I have a trailer I can use to take it some place, but won't have it after saturday; if my gasket doesn't come in until next week I'm not sure if I should just take it in, or if that sounds like my problem.

And another weird thing. If I test the fuel pump to a separate 12v source it works fine. If I use the battery wired into the bike it clicks once just like the old fuel pump. Wth?

Yup, Ya gotta use a gasket! The most recent case.......
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=38010
This very well could be the source of your starting problem. The extra mechanical resistance is straining the starting motor and circuitry, causing the protective fuse to fail. You should also use a new Middle Gear cover gasket, AND a new crush washer behind the drain bolt.
Nothing weird about the new pump only clicking once, if the bowls are full and the system up to pressure. That's the way it's designed to work.
Good luck!

 

[vladthedog]

The 1 click was happening even when I was running the fuel to a jar (no pressure). I took of the plastic cap that protected the electronics and it started working again. I think I didn't have it positioned correctly and it was causing it to hang up. Getting the gasket and will see what happens