three percent the truth

[Lars-Erik Andersson]

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all of You US friends or NOT ( GuruedVmax please control spelling: my English Course starts in Januari 20.. )
//Lars

 

[GuruedVMax]

Yep, yep, yep, and yep. Lol! Sounds like you identify as a (original) liberal in the true sense. I call them "the old liberals", I just didn't want to call you old. Lol. The original liberals embrace the constitution and just want to be left alone. And I definitely get that. I always distinguish (old) liberals from (contemporary) progressives. BIG difference. I have a good friend (beer drinkin' buddy) that actually describes himself Exactly as you did, "socially liberal and fiscally conservative". We still have some spirited conversation though. Lol! Especially after we get a few high octane beers in our guts.

What a great place CA use to be. I knew that I would not live my whole life in that state by the time I was in my mid-twenties. Don't know how bad it's gonna have to get there before people (progressives) realize the error of their ways. Oregon, Washington, and now Idaho have/are been/being changed, and CLEARLY not for the better, from immigration of Californians. I can speak freely about it because although I'm from there, I haven't been a "Californian" for a LONG time. I didn't leave that place, it left me. I grew up and have remained a Constitutional centered American and I'm probably more of a Libertarian than anything. The typical Californian (if they're even a f*ckin US citizen) is a hypocritical, self-serving, narcissistic, self aggrandizing, apathetic, pretentious/poser, opportunist *******. Oh sure, they present themselves as being morally better people. But their actions say otherwise. And they embrace socialism and sharing of the spoils. Yeah, they want to share the spoils of everyone else's labors because most of the lazy, confused, overpaid, ****-suckers don't have one bit of self discipline so they don't have **** to share. Much of the (paper) wealth in California is from equity awarded to people for just being a homeowner (whether or not they pay their mortgage and live up to contractual obligations or not) and credit. A LOT more comes from overpaid government entitlement jobs and the golden defined benefit pensions that come with them. They rob wealth from the private-sector and award it to the public-sector in exchange for political loyalty at the polls.

Every time one of those lunatic *******s does something stupid or unnatural, they think they need to pass ANOTHER new law to regulate everyone. The typical Californian has no interest in practicing moderation or self control of excess in their life, but the hypocrite *******s will self appoint themselves to tell the rest of us that we need to cut back or "pay our fair share", all while the rest of us are the ones that have been moderate in our actions and the ones that have already been carrying THEIR water. The short sighted pricks will vote for anything that immediately butters their bread, even though it will immediately screw someone else and even when any moron could see that the long term affects are going to screw everyone. The "Cali" m.o. is "I got mine". Self-sacrifice, accountability, and honor are just a few words that are rarely uttered within the California borders (except on a movie set), let alone practiced. The waste I use to witness was nauseating. But it's okay cuz they recycle or pass another law that symbolizes that they are "green". Virtue signaling, hypocrite, *******s will scream environmentalism while they stand at the southern border and hold the gate open for an endless amount of third world people that come from a scorched earth society and have no idea, or any cognitive desire or intention of changing. And the import of illegal aliens is done to perpetuate the democrat stronghold. To hell with everyone else's quality of life and the American dream be damned, their "gonna get theirs". "Environmentalism" in Kalifornia (and the world for that matter) is a dog and pony show designed to separate the citizens from MORE of their hard earned money, but to some it has become a religion. The "Earth God". As for me, I'm %100 for ecology and being a good steward of the planet. I truly love trees but I hate Tree-Huggers. I'm for more practice, less preach. I grew up hearing; "waste not, want not", "don't piss upstream from where you drink", "don't **** where you eat", etc. But don't think for a minute that your gonna live in Kalifornia and apply these good practices without being punished and having to pay the "green tax".

When you vote in Kalifornia it may or may not be a waste of time. It depends on how the vote turns out and the desired outcome from the point of view of the socialist-democrat over-lords that run the place. In the mid to late 90's, Kalifornia put affirmative action up for vote (should California continue to give jobs, college admissions, etc. to people based on their skin color and not on merit). The good people of California popularly voted to remove it. That wasn't the desired outcome of the despots, sooo.. they put it to the vote again. And again "affirmative action" was defeated by popular vote. Sooo... the obvious next step for the naked Marxist *******s to do was to have one, (1), uno activist judge make a "ruling" on the "democratic process". And, so the racism in Kalifornia continues orchestrated from the democrat leadership. Then, they did a repeat with gay marriage and proposition 8. See democrats love Democracy so long as it fits their narrative. They are the playwrights in Kalifornia.

Kalifornia progressives SCREAM diversity and damn western civilization and the American culture. They act impulsively based on emotion. They think that they are Intellectually superior to their objective-thinking counterparts. I would love to put a half dozen Islamic zealots in a locked room with a half dozen LGBTQ members and watch the fray. Sounds mean, but that's exactly what the delusional progressive ****-suckers want to do to the rest of us when they inject people with a culture that is simply not compliant with our culture and the US Constitution. And speaking of the "rainbow community" in Kalifornia, I could give a **** less what they do in their bedroom. It ain't none of my business! I wish they could reciprocate the same courtesy and respect for the non-gay community. Instead the militant ****-suckers want to force everyone to like, respect, and pay homage to them. They want everyone to embrace them for their bravery. LOL! Hell, I'm old enough to remember when they "just wanted everyone to stay out of THEIR bedroom", now I can't keep those f*ckers out of MY livingroom.


Pretty much, the typical Kalifornian claims to be everything they really aren't. All this and they have clearly expressed that they have absolutely no interest in even starting to correct the course they are on and that they will fight anyone or any policies that would. There are still some good people in California and we always said that if you could go right up interstate 5 from southern California to the top of Washington with a large saw and cut off everything to the left side, California, Oregon, and Washington would be good again.

EXACTLY...

 

[caseyjones955]

Yep, yep, yep, and yep. Lol! Sounds like you identify as a (original) liberal in the true sense. I call them "the old liberals", I just didn't want to call you old. Lol. T
Pretty much, the typical Kalifornian claims to be everything they really aren't. All this and they have clearly expressed that they have absolutely no interest in even starting to correct the course they are on and that they will fight anyone or any policies that would. There are still some good people in California and we always said that if you could go right up interstate 5 from southern California to the top of Washington with a large saw and cut off everything to the left side, California, Oregon, and Washington would be good again.

I'm old-ish, it's all good. Everyone I know in CA refers to it as a former paradise. I'm pretty much libertarian too. The hard left are terribly closed minded, if you dont fall into full agreement with them you are branded with the blanket responses I noted above. When I say, USA, I mean USA - CA, which seems pretty un American to me. There are some reasons I find the center to be a good fit and either side of a happy medium to be behind enemy lines.

Issues I see wit the right:
Poor track record with equal rights for all, primarily gays.
Prohibition against cannabis.
Brutally ineffective, counterproductive and expensive war on drugs.
Saying lets let people choose for themselves and shrink gov, then continue overreach, intrusion.
Wasteful spending
Lack of transparency +
Against reproductive rights/Anti-choice
Abuse of taxpayers
Seemingly averse to common sense immigration reform and diversity.
Legal immigration to cost prohibitive for many immigrants that would be real assets to our country.
Blatant religious discrimination, inadequate separation of church and state.
Unwarranted surveillance/investigations clumsily disguised as national security interests post 9/11
Pros:
Preservation (generally) of constitutional rights.
Tougher on China/foreign powers.

Issues I see with the left:
Poor track record with equal rights for all, if your not a liberal then your a hater/racist/Nazi/fascist pig.
Straight white men need not apply. Non-progressives need not apply.
Pro-censorship. Shame and cancel any who do not agree.
Very willing to trash the constitution to further their agenda, this one is BIG.
Wasteful spending +
Lack of transparency
Preservation the bottom of the barrel at the taxpayers expense/enable and reward the entitled.
Want to swell government and increase taxes dramatically. Another glaring biggie.
Would take our guns immediately given .5 a chance.
Would have open borders if allowed to.
Inability to run a state properly.
Inability to adhere to a common sense budget, as evidenced by CA et al.
Embraces socialism on too many cases
Pros:
Anti-prohibition of cannabis
Pro-choice RE reproductive rights

Center/Libertarian:
Not coming out in enough force to rock the expensive and restrictive bipartisan boat.
Pros:
Would dramatically decrease the size/cost/power and reach of gov
Introduce gov transparency and accountability.
Remove gov from guns, insurance, marriage, land ownership, medical issues/procedures et al.
Return gov owned/BLM lands to the states that would rightfully own them
Pretty much invert the cons above and insert here.

I realize this is subjective to many and I could stand to be corrected but this is exactly how I see it. In speaking with friends and acquaintances I see that many folks that claim to be conservatives/Republicans are actually mostly or completely libertarian.

 

[Kronx]

I realize this is subjective to many and I could stand to be corrected but this is exactly how I see it.

I understand your list. I agree with a good bit of it. I feel a lot of your problems with the left is the extreme left which don't really hold much power in the party. At least as of yet they dont. But when you say things like "Non-progressive straight white men need not apply" when the Dem presidential front runner as you typed that is a non-progressive straight white man -- I have to scratch my head. I understand there's a lot of SJWs on the left. I get it. But I dont think that should be confused with mainstream Dems. Like as you said Dems would take guns away given half the chance. Obama and the Dems had the majority in the House and Senate when he took office - that was a hell of a lot more than half the chance and they didn't do it. But I know there are folks on the hard left calling for bans. So I get ultimately where you're coming from. I do have concerns about the extreme left eventually taking over the Democratic party the way the extreme right/evangelicals have full control over the Republican party now. As I've said previously, I'm of the opinion that we've crossed a point of no return. And in that regard I think the Democratic party will eventually be taken over by the extreme left. When that happens, I suspect the island of independent misfits is going to grow larger and larger as the two parties move to their extremes. Who knows maybe a viable 3rd party will emerge from that chaos if there's a still a republic left in those ashes.

I think when it comes to some of the bigger issues we as a country have ignored them to the point where we've ****** ourselves. It's like straining a rubber band to the point where it breaks and snaps back and pops the **** out of us. Big issues are non-partisan. It's gonna pop the **** it of you no matter which party you voted for. Let an issue go ignored too long and that rubber band gets wound tighter and tighter. Ignore a big too long and it will get to a point where the correction to problem ends up being radical and pops the **** out of us. And since human beings are pretty flawed we often over-correct.

I'd argue if you fear radical liberal agendas taking hold in America then as a conservative you need to pressure your party to offer a reasonable solution to the big problems -- to the big rubber bands that are winding up. If your party's only solution is to just dismiss it - to claim the problem doesn't even exist then you can't complain when the rubber band snaps and a liberal solution is applied. It will get applied NOT because liberals are trying to ruin everything, it will get applied because their ideas were the only ones in the marketplace. You can mock The Green New Deal as much as you want, and there's plenty to mock, but climate change is a big rubber band winding tight and Republicans are claiming it's all a hoax. So what do you think is gonna happen when a non-partisan issue snaps and people start looking around for a correction and the ONLY party offering a correction is the radical liberal one? Conservative apathy is just as much to blame as liberal agendas IMO.

 

[GuruedVMax]

I understand your list. I agree with a good bit of it. I feel a lot of your problems with the left is the extreme left which don't really hold much power in the party. At least as of yet they dont. But when you say things like "Non-progressive straight white men need not apply" when the Dem presidential front runner as you typed that is a non-progressive straight white man -- I have to scratch my head. I understand there's a lot of SJWs on the left. I get it. But I dont think that should be confused with mainstream Dems. Like as you said Dems would take guns away given half the chance. Obama and the Dems had the majority in the House and Senate when he took office - that was a hell of a lot more than half the chance and they didn't do it. But I know there are folks on the hard left calling for bans. So I get ultimately where you're coming from. I do have concerns about the extreme left eventually taking over the Democratic party the way the extreme right/evangelicals have full control over the Republican party now. As I've said previously, I'm of the opinion that we've crossed a point of no return. And in that regard I think the Democratic party will eventually be taken over by the extreme left. When that happens, I suspect the island of independent misfits is going to grow larger and larger as the two parties move to their extremes. Who knows maybe a viable 3rd party will emerge from that chaos if there's a still a republic left in those ashes.

I think when it comes to some of the bigger issues we as a country have ignored them to the point where we've ****** ourselves. It's like straining a rubber band to the point where it breaks and snaps back and pops the **** out of us. Big issues are non-partisan. It's gonna pop the **** it of you no matter which party you voted for. Let an issue go ignored too long and that rubber band gets wound tighter and tighter. Ignore a big too long and it will get to a point where the correction to problem ends up being radical and pops the **** out of us. And since human beings are pretty flawed we often over-correct.

I'd argue if you fear radical liberal agendas taking hold in America then as a conservative you need to pressure your party to offer a reasonable solution to the big problems -- to the big rubber bands that are winding up. If your party's only solution is to just dismiss it - to claim the problem doesn't even exist then you can't complain when the rubber band snaps and a liberal solution is applied. It will get applied NOT because liberals are trying to ruin everything, it will get applied because their ideas were the only ones in the marketplace. You can mock The Green New Deal as much as you want, and there's plenty to mock, but climate change is a big rubber band winding tight and Republicans are claiming it's all a hoax. So what do you think is gonna happen when a non-partisan issue snaps and people start looking around for a correction and the ONLY party offering a correction is the radical liberal one? Conservative apathy is just as much to blame as liberal agendas IMO.

You make some very valid points. The one thing that I fully admit I don't understand, and definitely do not know, is just how much impact man has on climate change. I STRONGLY believe we need to take much better care of our planet, starting with all the damn garbage that is thrown into our oceans but I can't help but wonder how associated 'taking care of our planet' and actual 'climate change' is. Science has proven without a doubt that climate change has been a regular occurrence on Earth since it cooled. That's hundreds of millions of years before man evolved so since we weren't here we couldn't possibly have impacted that. One volcano 'burp' puts more emissions into the air than all the vehicles running on the planet does in an entire year. We've got sites/links that put all the blame on us humans, and yet others say we are responsible for less than .0001% of actual planetary climate change. I wish someone/anyone would come out with indisputable facts on this issue that would transcend politics....

 

[caseyjones955]

I understand your list. I agree with a good bit of it. I feel a lot of your problems with the left is the extreme left which don't really hold much power in the party. At least as of yet they dont. But when you say things like "Non-progressive straight white men need not apply" when the Dem presidential front runner as you typed that is a non-progressive straight white man -- I have to scratch my head. I understand there's a lot of SJWs on the left. I get it. But I dont think that should be confused with mainstream Dems. Like as you said Dems would take guns away given half the chance. Obama and the Dems had the majority in the House and Senate when he took office - that was a hell of a lot more than half the chance and they didn't do it. But I know there are folks on the hard left calling for bans. So I get ultimately where you're coming from. I do have concerns about the extreme left eventually taking over the Democratic party the way the extreme right/evangelicals have full control over the Republican party now. As I've said previously, I'm of the opinion that we've crossed a point of no return. And in that regard I think the Democratic party will eventually be taken over by the extreme left. When that happens, I suspect the island of independent misfits is going to grow larger and larger as the two parties move to their extremes. Who knows maybe a viable 3rd party will emerge from that chaos if there's a still a republic left in those ashes.

I think when it comes to some of the bigger issues we as a country have ignored them to the point where we've ****** ourselves. It's like straining a rubber band to the point where it breaks and snaps back and pops the **** out of us. Big issues are non-partisan. It's gonna pop the **** it of you no matter which party you voted for. Let an issue go ignored too long and that rubber band gets wound tighter and tighter. Ignore a big too long and it will get to a point where the correction to problem ends up being radical and pops the **** out of us. And since human beings are pretty flawed we often over-correct.

I'd argue if you fear radical liberal agendas taking hold in America then as a conservative you need to pressure your party to offer a reasonable solution to the big problems -- to the big rubber bands that are winding up. If your party's only solution is to just dismiss it - to claim the problem doesn't even exist then you can't complain when the rubber band snaps and a liberal solution is applied. It will get applied NOT because liberals are trying to ruin everything, it will get applied because their ideas were the only ones in the marketplace. You can mock The Green New Deal as much as you want, and there's plenty to mock, but climate change is a big rubber band winding tight and Republicans are claiming it's all a hoax. So what do you think is gonna happen when a non-partisan issue snaps and people start looking around for a correction and the ONLY party offering a correction is the radical liberal one? Conservative apathy is just as much to blame as liberal agendas IMO.

Point well taken, my issues are mostly with the hard left. I should have specified. I can actually understand the moderate left and right to a large degree, at least until we start trying to legislate biblical obedience. While I was stuck in Seattle I could see and feel open hostility toward non-progressives and a general idea that straight white guys somehow define all that is wrong with the country. My experiences led me to make that point. I was openly dissed for being a white male, yes, true. I lived for a while in Columbia City (quite a hood back then) and I was openly dissed every day for being white. Straight conservative leaning white dudes were not a popular flavor. I think Bush was in office then so I sort of get it. Seattle is VERY liberal, especially around Capitol hill and Queen Anne, two places where I had several friends and liked to hang out. I also spent a lot of time in Snohomish Co, and that is quite a bit more conservative. Liberalism was the flavor of the day (89-05) and rather than feeling shame over not going hard left, I felt defiance. I still feel it. There was a general attitude that every one should have equality and have their customs embraced by all, oh yea, unless your straight conservative ******. Our cultures and customs don't count, we are the problem, not the solution. I have been very tolerant of others differences, and I have always had trouble with that respect not being returned to me because I'm not a participating. The valid points I heard about getting gov out of marriage and reproductive rights made perfect sense, so I changed my views on that, which moved me away from the right and towards the center. I met lots of folks out in Snohomish area that made the valid points of, why the **** does government need to have any stance on any of these issues at all. Made sense, views adjusted.

I also agree that the hard right is useful to counter the hard left. I still believe Obama would have made guns disappear if he could have made it so, at that, and this point in time it would be political suicide, still too many of us are gun lovers. One thing I can not say about Obama is that he is stupid, I think he's the smartest POTUS we have had in a long time, even though I mostly disagree with him. Even though dems had control then, it would have been a very serious uphill battle, unenforceable IMHO. He knew it would be very bad for his party. I further believe Obama is an atheist but was just playing the part to get into office.

Your point of snapping back is quite easy to agree with. We over-correct, we have over-corrected quite a bit in recent years. PC-ism and feminism are my two favorite examples where we needed work, we did some work and solved some real issues, but we just kept going until we passed a good common sense place, we kept going until it was ridiculous.

The only part I'm not completely in agreement with is how much Obama would have loved to make the entire USA as hostile to gun owners as CA is. As usual, I'm glad to read your position, I find you very hard to disagree with haha.

 

[caseyjones955]

You make some very valid points. The one thing that I fully admit I don't understand, and definitely do not know, is just how much impact man has on climate change. I STRONGLY believe we need to take much better care of our planet, starting with all the damn garbage that is thrown into our oceans but I can't help but wonder how associated 'taking care of our planet' and actual 'climate change' is. Science has proven without a doubt that climate change has been a regular occurrence on Earth since it cooled. That's hundreds of millions of years before man evolved so since we weren't here we couldn't possibly have impacted that. One volcano 'burp' puts more emissions into the air than all the vehicles running on the planet does in an entire year. We've got sites/links that put all the blame on us humans, and yet others say we are responsible for less than .0001% of actual planetary climate change. I wish someone/anyone would come out with indisputable facts on this issue that would transcend politics....

Wind and solare are the future. I believe some of the science is sound on climate change, but I also think the hype coming form the Thumburg camp is way overblown. We do need to sort out renewable energy before too damn long, but solar tech keeps advancing, things are looking up, just very slowly.

Ever see pics in China of the air like London fog? That is scary **** right there. Worse than LA.

 

[Kronx]

You make some very valid points. The one thing that I fully admit I don't understand, and definitely do not know, is just how much impact man has on climate change. I STRONGLY believe we need to take much better care of our planet, starting with all the damn garbage that is thrown into our oceans but I can't help but wonder how associated 'taking care of our planet' and actual 'climate change' is. Science has proven without a doubt that climate change has been a regular occurrence on Earth since it cooled. That's hundreds of millions of years before man evolved so since we weren't here we couldn't possibly have impacted that. One volcano 'burp' puts more emissions into the air than all the vehicles running on the planet does in an entire year. We've got sites/links that put all the blame on us humans, and yet others say we are responsible for less than .0001% of actual planetary climate change. I wish someone/anyone would come out with indisputable facts on this issue that would transcend politics....

I think we can all agree greed is king. Greed is bi-partisan. It's king all around the world, and particularly in the United States because we make capitalism a founding pillar in our republic. And because we know this we have our skepticism. I'd wager its in all of our nature to question things and often times one of the questions we often propose is "Who stands to profit from this?" Or "Follow the money." To me I find when folks often disagree with climate change debate its more a matter of who do we think is getting paid off. Climate change activists accuse big oil for their propaganda and climate change deniers claim its green energy greed with their propaganda. I think all can exist. I think big oil can fun propaganda to push back. I think big money investors can fund propaganda to promote green technology. Both of those things can happen while our planet is radically changing from our industrialization.

Climate science isn't new. Climate scientists were publishing papers back in the 60s and 70s -- doing their 50 year forecasts as well. And their 50 year forecasts were pretty accurate to where we are today. For me I just look at it pretty simply. Oil isn't unlimited. There is a finality to it. Granted that finality may be hundreds of years down the road, but we KNOW we need sustainable renewable energy long term. Look at the evolution of a modern combustible engine compared to the first one made back in 1859. We've come a LONG way. In its infancy electricity was really inefficient and dangerous too. Renewable tech is going to need time to evolve as well. Yet, today in our world of instant gratification, if renewable tech isn't perfect and awesome and better we dismiss it. But we know that it's going to be needed in the long run. So lets get started. Lets make meaningful investments in our infrastructure so we can start putting it through its paces and begin its evolution. The more we use it the faster it will evolve. We're never going to give up technology. We just need to be smarter and less wasteful about how we use it.

In regards to your questions about man vs nature impact on the climate I understand that as well. I look at it like this. I know as I get older, my chances of a heart problems increase naturally. I can eat all the right foods, exercise daily, etc and it's still possible I can have heart problems. But do I want increase that risk by sitting around every day eating junk food and never exercising? There's a chance I could do that and never have heart problems as well. I think most of us try to strike a balance. I think right now the world is eating junk food and not exercising. We have islands of garbage in the oceans that are twice as big as the state of Texas. We are pulling all types of fish out of the ocean and finding their bodies filled with plastics. We are taking trillions of tons of carbon from underground and putting in the atmosphere when we know long term that's not a good idea. I think we need to eat better and start exercising metaphorically speaking.

 

[Kronx]

Point well taken, my issues are mostly with the hard left. I should have specified. I can actually understand the moderate left and right to a large degree, at least until we start trying to legislate biblical obedience. While I was stuck in Seattle I could see and feel open hostility toward non-progressives and a general idea that straight white guys somehow define all that is wrong with the country. My experiences led me to make that point. I was openly dissed for being a white male, yes, true. I lived for a while in Columbia City (quite a hood back then) and I was openly dissed every day for being white. Straight conservative leaning white dudes were not a popular flavor. I think Bush was in office then so I sort of get it. Seattle is VERY liberal, especially around Capitol hill and Queen Anne, two places where I had several friends and liked to hang out. I also spent a lot of time in Snohomish Co, and that is quite a bit more conservative. Liberalism was the flavor of the day (89-05) and rather than feeling shame over not going hard left, I felt defiance. I still feel it. There was a general attitude that every one should have equality and have their customs embraced by all, oh yea, unless your straight conservative ******. Our cultures and customs don't count, we are the problem, not the solution. I have been very tolerant of others differences, and I have always had trouble with that respect not being returned to me because I'm not a participating. The valid points I heard about getting gov out of marriage and reproductive rights made perfect sense, so I changed my views on that, which moved me away from the right and towards the center. I met lots of folks out in Snohomish area that made the valid points of, why the **** does government need to have any stance on any of these issues at all. Made sense, views adjusted.

I also agree that the hard right is useful to counter the hard left. I still believe Obama would have made guns disappear if he could have made it so, at that, and this point in time it would be political suicide, still too many of us are gun lovers. One thing I can not say about Obama is that he is stupid, I think he's the smartest POTUS we have had in a long time, even though I mostly disagree with him. Even though dems had control then, it would have been a very serious uphill battle, unenforceable IMHO. He knew it would be very bad for his party. I further believe Obama is an atheist but was just playing the part to get into office.

Your point of snapping back is quite easy to agree with. We over-correct, we have over-corrected quite a bit in recent years. PC-ism and feminism are my two favorite examples where we needed work, we did some work and solved some real issues, but we just kept going until we passed a good common sense place, we kept going until it was ridiculous.

The only part I'm not completely in agreement with is how much Obama would have loved to make the entire USA as hostile to gun owners as CA is. As usual, I'm glad to read your position, I find you very hard to disagree with haha.

Fair enough. I agree with you he's probably atheist. I have no problems with that as long as an atheist doesn't treat atheism like a religion which I've seen some atheists do. I think atheism shouldn't be a negative for a political candidate. I wish that would change.

I don't think Obama had any intention on taking guns away. You said "If he could have made it so, he would." My response to that is he could have made it so. He had all the stars aligned to do it. Politically, he was already guilty in the court of public opinion of doing it. Wayne LaPierre was screaming from the rooftops that he was going to do it. Gun sales went through the roof right before he took office and throughout his presidency over this fear. I still remember getting invited to Christmas dinner in 2008 from a co-worker. She was our administrative assistant. Her husband had lost his job from the recession. I apparently had the reputation around the office of being a "big gun guy" because I was getting folks at the office hooked on trap shooting at the time. So when I show up he excitedly shows me the new AR-15 he bought. His wife was pretty pissed. Not because she had a problem with guns, but because they were barely getting by on just her salary and it was $1500 that she felt could be better spent. Thing is he was an accountant so he was more frugal than she was, but he told me when he showed it to me "I had to get it before Obama bans them." I told him then that wasn't going to happen.

My point being I think he had the legislative power to do it and politically he was already being accused of doing it. It was the perfect time. He could have just leaned into what he was already being accused of doing. Would it have created a **** storm? Absolutely. But I'd argue there's no perfect situation where a president could do that and NOT create a **** storm. It's not like Obama was scared of **** storms. The ACA did not get passed quietly in the night.

I'm of the opinion that legislatively and politically there wasn't a better time for him to do it than when he first took office and not only did he not do it I think the more important point was -- it wasn't even on the table for him. Even after Newtown it wasn't on the table for him - granted he didn't have the legislative power then. And keep in mind we only heard about how horrific it was -- as the president you know he saw the crime scene photos. Hell, I get choked up watching videos of veterans returning to their dogs or surprising their family... if I saw the crime scene photos of Newtown... there's a high chance that would change me permanently in ways I can't imagine.

Perhaps I'm completely wrong. Perhaps he would have if he could have, but in the end he didn't. He never even put it on the table during his two terms. I try to avoid accusing people of something they never did or intended to do if there's no proof of intent. I never even saw proof of intent, but perhaps I missed something. But that's the direction of discourse these days. Obama was accused by Trump of not being a US citizen with no proof -- the burden of proof was put on Obama to prove he was rather than the accuser to prove he wasn't. I'd argue Trump is doing the same with Biden now. And just like Trump said he had investigators in Hawaii with all of this proof that Obama wasn't born there which never materialized... Trump is playing the same game saying Rudy has information from Ukraine.
I've made a lot of criticisms and said a lot of harsh words of Trump on these forums. But I've also at least backed them up with what I feel is evidence of my criticism/accusation. And it's perfectly reasonable for those that disagree with me to say "********, those facts don't prove it." I can accept that even if I don't disagree with it. But what I try not to do is use the Trump playbook and say "Trump is corrupt. The burden of proof is on you to prove to me he isn't."

But I also accept sometimes we just have these "gut feelings" about people. Our Spiderman senses start tingling. I remember my Spidey sense was screaming to me John Edwards was a piece of **** long before the evidence came out that he was indeed a piece of ****. So I can accept that if your Spidey Sense said you think Obama would have done it if he could." In the end I'm glad he didn't.

 

[Kronx]

I also think the hype coming form the Thumburg camp is way overblown.

In regards to being overblown, I'd like to offer this video. If you have 5 mins - just watch it all the way through. Just something to consider or as the man in the video says "It's just a thought."

 

[Lars-Erik Andersson]

Crazy side; close it down as fast as possible , does not belong to a VMax motorcycle site ...Most of these crazy Potus guys have to communicate in other areas....(sorry VGuruMax.... course starts in 2020....)
/Lars

 

[Lars-Erik Andersson]

Close this side down nothing to a motorcycle site.... The Guys from from POTUS support site please find an other areaYOU will find support....
ME find this area crazy and why have it here ?
(Sory Vmax guru... Course starts 2020 )

 

[Lars-Erik Andersson]

Sorry mates close this side down.... No IDEA to discuss when no argumentation ,,,,,, Potus friends does belive in everything he does ,,,, no matter ( VMAX Guru ... spelling pls me take course 2020 wait in argumentation)
THIS is a Motorcycle site close this side fast CRAZY
//Lars

 

[GuruedVMax]

As you've probably noticed I've pretty well backed out of this thread. I said my piece, I'm not out to change anyone's mind and they won't change mine. That being said, the majority of bike, car, boating forums have a specific area for subjects not pertaining to what the actual site is about. Like on the boating forum, OffshoreOnly.com, there is an area called 'the Bilge' where anything can be discussed.

My only thoughts on the subject of close this down or not close this down is simple, no one is being forced to participate in this discussion. They should be adult enough to just pass on by if it does not interest them. However some people like the idea. So it gives THEM the choice. And choice is what it should all be about. Just my two cents.

Hope everyone has a very Merry Christmas... Cheers to all of you, and keep practicing your spelling, Lars... lol...

 

[wacokid]

I
Climate science isn't new. Climate scientists were publishing papers back in the 60s and 70s -- doing their 50 year forecasts as well. And their 50 year forecasts were pretty accurate to where we are today.

Some of your arguments I can agree with, some not so much. However, I can’t let this one pass.

All I heard as a kid was we are all gonna die because of the next ice age coming in the ‘70’s, clear into the millennium. It was ******** then, it is ******** now. I spent a dime doing international travel. Not to sight see. For work. In industrial areas. Farrrrrr from any tourist traps. Thank you NAFTA... I was never so glad to see the USofA, even San Fran, because its nice compared to the ******** the rest of the world really is.

Until somebody stands up and goes to China, Mexico City, JBurg S Africa, and São Paulo Brazil, telling them to get their act together, I’m tired of hearing any of it. I dare you to spend one week in an industrial area of any of those countries. And when you come back and cough black **** up for a week? Come talk to me about how we as Americans are the problem, because we are not.

I.E., The ***** savant driver I had in wayyyyyy N Thailand crashed, on a bridge, over a river. I witnessed first hand dead animals, diapers, appliances, flowing down said river while an old woman was doing laundry, in that same river, at the same time. On the other side of the bridge, an old guy was doing dishes

**** the world with a rusty ******* ‘74 Maverick front bumper. It’s not because they don’t have money, or are not educated, they. Don’t. *******. Care.

You’re in MO, correct? I work there frequently, JC, Rolla, STL to name a few. Go take a ride to Big Bend, TX, and see for yourself the sheer amounts of TRASH from the ******* freeloaders coming across in droves. They. Don’t. *******. Care!!!

And capitalism? We haven’t had laissez-faire capitalism on a Von Mises scale in more than a century. You know how easy it is to buy 545 ******** that just seem to keep getting re-elected??? This **** is crony capitalism at best

 

[Kronx]

I never said America was the problem when it came to climate change. Not sure where you got that. I've been to Sao Paulo a few times. I've been to India. I've been to Thailand. All for work as well. I've seen the pollution. I've seen those rivers your talking about. There's also a patch of garbage that's in the Pacific Ocean that's twice the size of Texas. You're right. A lot of people don't ******* care. Whether they don't care or you think it's all ******** -- I don't see much difference in the long run between those two perspectives. Both are dangerous perspectives to the environment in my opinion. But that's your right and your choice. Carry on.

There's some folks working hard trying to come up with the solution for cleaning up those rivers you spoke of and the garbage patch in the ocean. Like any sort of engineering project, they have had failures, it's part of the process, but the ****** up thing is people cheer when they fail.

Not sure if anyone every watches the Joe Rogan podcasts. He just had a young Dutch guy on that is trying to cleanup the rivers/oceans. You can just see the exhaustion on that guys face. It was an interesting interview and I enjoyed it. I'll link it here if anyone is interested.

 

[Itgoes]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/20/us-gdp-q3-2019-final-reading.html

 

[rynoman]

Some of your arguments I can agree with, some not so much. However, I can’t let this one pass.

All I heard as a kid was we are all gonna die because of the next ice age coming in the ‘70’s, clear into the millennium. It was ******** then, it is ******** now. I spent a dime doing international travel. Not to sight see. For work. In industrial areas. Farrrrrr from any tourist traps. Thank you NAFTA... I was never so glad to see the USofA, even San Fran, because its nice compared to the ******** the rest of the world really is.

Until somebody stands up and goes to China, Mexico City, JBurg S Africa, and São Paulo Brazil, telling them to get their act together, I’m tired of hearing any of it. I dare you to spend one week in an industrial area of any of those countries. And when you come back and cough black **** up for a week? Come talk to me about how we as Americans are the problem, because we are not.

I.E., The ***** savant driver I had in wayyyyyy N Thailand crashed, on a bridge, over a river. I witnessed first hand dead animals, diapers, appliances, flowing down said river while an old woman was doing laundry, in that same river, at the same time. On the other side of the bridge, an old guy was doing dishes

**** the world with a rusty ******* ‘74 Maverick front bumper. It’s not because they don’t have money, or are not educated, they. Don’t. *******. Care.

You’re in MO, correct? I work there frequently, JC, Rolla, STL to name a few. Go take a ride to Big Bend, TX, and see for yourself the sheer amounts of TRASH from the ******* freeloaders coming across in droves. They. Don’t. *******. Care!!!

And capitalism? We haven’t had laissez-faire capitalism on a Von Mises scale in more than a century. You know how easy it is to buy 545 ******** that just seem to keep getting re-elected??? This **** is crony capitalism at best

Yes sir! You hit all those nails on the head!! But, this quote is especially important: "And capitalism? We haven’t had laissez-faire capitalism on a Von Mises scale in more than a century. You know how easy it is to buy 545 ******** that just seem to keep getting re-elected??? This **** is crony capitalism at best".

 

[Itgoes]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/20/us-gdp-q3-2019-final-reading.html

Another not to good sign for the economy.....tarrifs were supposed to boost US steel makers.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/20/us-steel-says-it-will-lay-off-1500-workers-board-cuts-dividend.html

 

[GuruedVMax]

Another not to good sign for the economy.....tarrifs were supposed to boost US steel makers.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/20/us-steel-says-it-will-lay-off-1500-workers-board-cuts-dividend.html

Not sure what the deal is up in your neck of the woods, but down here especially in Alabama the steel industry is booming. There are three major manufacturing plants that have sat dormant for thirty years or better that are now on full operating capacity working around the clock. On Interstate 40 I can't drive/ride the 13 miles into Cookeville without passing at least 3 or 4 (and sometimes more) 18 wheeler flatbeds hauling steel. If it's not alive and well up in the north that is very unfortunate, but I can personally attest it is booming here in the south.