vmax coil questions

[Fire-medic]

I am only a hobbyist. I am not a drag racer, or a top-end freak. I do believe in what KJ said, a better ignition will gain HP. I have both Gannon's kit and a set of Dyna 3 ohm coils. I also have a DYNA3000 CDI. Who remembers the KMart coil conversion for another revered Yamaha, the RD350? I think it was Gordon Jennings in Cycle Magazine in the early 1970's that popularized that one, and it made a huge difference in the capabilities of the bike's performance for very-little $. What do so-many car racers use the MSD components? A better ignition produces more power. With time, better components came to the marketplace, so maybe there isn't as-much to be gained, but recall our bikes were designed using early 1980's technology. There are gains to be had.

At one point I was tempted to do a series of dyno runs modifying my bike 1 component at a time. My dyno dilemma :damn angry: http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=21873&highlight=dyno+dilemma stopped that plan. Now I ride my bike and enjoy it, and avoid the $$$ bills of catastrophic failures.

I have multiple full exhausts, (Mark's, UFO, Kerker, all 4/1's) and was thinking about testing those in the same way, but since you have to remove the centerstand tang for mounting the Kerker 4/1, I am not likely going to be mounting that one.

Dyno or track #'s stop arguments, for the most-part. :worthy:

Then-again, what would we bench-race about, if someone posted their findings? Think of it like the BCS for collegiate football.

 

[jagco1]

wow this is some good info, so what coils would I need, I will go head and buy the dyna 3000 to. The motor is rebuilt cams reground heads shave ported polish flow test higher compression. stage 7 jet kit.

 

[Fire-medic]

There is an old DYNA 3000 CDI and a new DYNA 3000 CDI. Either one will work for you, the new one offers more tuning capacity, and then there is the alternative CDI that member Dingy has offered. That one should also work. http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=23506&highlight=group http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=31601&highlight=group

Coupled w/the DYNA 3-ohm mini coils (you will need 4 of 'em) that KJ mentioned should get you all the extra there is to-get.

I have the older DYNA 3000 CDI and the bigger DYNA 3-ohm coils. I got my kit from Gannon at about the same time as I got the DYNA coils, and I took the 'path of least-resistance' (resistance to removing/replacing the coils) and did the Gannon coil-over plug assembly. That is what I currently run. I am pleased w/the kit, a high-quality assembly.

 

[mckzx9]

+1 on Gannon's kit. Plug and play and my bike starts better and runs better. It's a no brainer.

 

[cgswss]

Back in the old days, when I was running Brit bikes and road racing a Yamaha 2 stroke, I had a little trick I did that made a huge difference. I would add a bias resistor and a car coil. this made a huge difference in performance, but to get that boost I ran a lot more gap and more advance. In fact I still have a BSA 500 single that starts on the first kick and idles like a trail 90. (OK first kick AFTER tickling the carb, rolling it thru 2 rev with compression release in, and carefully setting the piston just past TDC on the compression stroke)

I don't understand how you could get more power from a different coil while using the same gap on a bike you can't change the advance on. Unless they somehow make the spark pulse longer. But what do I know? I haven't done any racing for over 20 years.

 

[Fire-medic]

Back in the old days, when I was running Brit bikes and road racing a Yamaha 2 stroke, I had a little trick I did that made a huge difference. I would add a bias resistor and a car coil. this made a huge difference in performance, but to get that boost I ran a lot more gap and more advance. In fact I still have a BSA 500 single that starts on the first kick and idles like a trail 90. (OK first kick AFTER tickling the carb, rolling it thru 2 rev with compression release in, and carefully setting the piston just past TDC on the compression stroke)

Will it start on its own, if you just leave the key-on, and nudge it just-past TDC? One of my firefighter co-workers used to do that w/his Harley, and he said he won a lot of bar-bets doing it, free beer! You would be standing there watching-it and all of a sudden, the bike's compression would push-down the piston, and it would start.

I like the BSA 441 gas tank, the half polished/half-painted one. That bike always was 'what a bike should look-like,' to me. I heard the CCM's were well-sorted examples of a 441 Victor, w/most of the quirks and bugs worked-out. Go John Banks! The Triumph Trophy in '73, w/the alloy tank and a diagonal stripe was another beautiful-looking bike, except for the exhaust. That and the Daytona 500 were the best-lookers in their line-up. One of my college friends went to England and bought a new Daytona 500 at the factory, and rode-around England and the Continent for a couple months, before shipping the bike home. He kept it for close-to 30 years, and sold it to another GM Tech Center employee.

I don't understand how you could get more power from a different coil while using the same gap on a bike you can't change the advance on. Unless they somehow make the spark pulse longer. But what do I know? I haven't done any racing for over 20 years.

Yes, you would expect that one of the things to-do would be to use a larger gap, to provide more spark area for the air/fuel mix. From my reading, I see that as the combustion chamber got more-shaped like a thin wedge, the advance had to increase, to allow the mixture to ignite and to spread across the combustion chamber and to eliminate pockets of uneven ignition of the chamber gases. A larger chamber didn't apparently have this problem, as-in a hemispherical design. I think the Heron-design, w/the combustion chamber inside the piston crown, was an attempt to overcome this phenomenon.

 

[jagco1]

There is an old DYNA 3000 CDI and a new DYNA 3000 CDI. Either one will work for you, the new one offers more tuning capacity, and then there is the alternative CDI that member Dingy has offered. That one should also work. http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=23506&highlight=group http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=31601&highlight=group

Coupled w/the DYNA 3-ohm mini coils (you will need 4 of 'em) that KJ mentioned should get you all the extra there is to-get.

I have the older DYNA 3000 CDI and the bigger DYNA 3-ohm coils. I got my kit from Gannon at about the same time as I got the DYNA coils, and I took the 'path of least-resistance' (resistance to removing/replacing the coils) and did the Gannon coil-over plug assembly. That is what I currently run. I am pleased w/the kit, a high-quality assembly.

So would the gannon kit be much better then stock setup, "O" who is gannon and how much for his kit. Would the dyna 3000 and coils be a up grade in performance over gannon kits. I call dynatech they ask me to call back a little later this evening.

Thanks for the info guy's

 

[DMAN999]

Gannon = 88vmx12.
http://www.vmaxforum.net/member.php?u=469
Sean Morley (one2dmax) sells his kits too, PM him for pricing.

I have his kit and like it but the Only real benefit I see is, that it's MUCH easier to swap out a bad coil if one goes bad.
I keep an extra coil in my fork bag just in case I ever need it.

 

[MaxMidnight]

So would the gannon kit be much better then stock setup

That would depend on the condition of your HT system. If in good nick then you won't notice much difference BUT...

OE has coils, HT leads and plug cap all of which can cause issues whereas as with COP's there is only one component in the system thus is far less potential to go wrong.
Additionally, in the event of a problem it is far easier to swap a COP that a coil, lead or cap, particularly if one of the front pair are involved.

Who is gannon and how much for his kit.

He is the gentleman who sells a COP kit

Would the dyna 3000 and coils be a up grade in performance over gannon kits.

I doubt it and even if there was I suspect you wouldn't notice the difference.

 

[jagco1]

Thanks been doing a lot of reading, Gannon is out of stock right now. I talk to dynatech the guy said if was to buy the coils and the ignition box and the work dun to my already, bike I should see 5hp or more..